Is there a 45 second rule?

[neophytea]

Is there really a rule requiring tournament players to hit their ball in 45 seconds or less?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by neophytea

Is there really a rule requiring tournament players to hit their ball in 45 seconds or less?

No. Only if they're "on the clock" which only occurs when they're out of position.

[quantus]

even worse, there is a 30 seconds rule but i guess it applies only to minigolf tounaments in the UK. It has been previously 45 seconds. where are you based?

[neophytea]

I am in Florida in the US.  I wonder if players were always on a clock, like basketball and football these long tournaments would be condensed and better for TV.

[johnny2balls]

I think the only way to get players attention is by assesing strokes for falling behind. Fines obviously won't do it.  It does not have to be the whole group, a single player can be singled out.  Every single player, caddie, PGA official, PGA crew and PGA wife know who the slow players are.

[zeg]

Such a rule, except when you're already clearly behind the groups ahead, would be a bad thing, IMO.  While in good conditions there's no reason to delay, I can think of plenty of situations where one might reasonably take more than 45 seconds to make a club and shot selection (e.g., a sudden wind change after you've set up).  It'd be hard to define a time limit that was short enough to be useful and long enough not to penalize legitimate consideration.

[Fourputt]

I would love to see a maximum time limit imposed on each shot.  I think that they waste too much time waiting for the wind to match their shot plan rather than matching the plan to the wind.  It gets really old watching the players stand there looking at the treetops and haggling over this and that with their caddies.  Once they reach the ball they should have "X" seconds to play the stroke.  They can be watching the trees, roughly estimating the distance, elevation etc. while they walk.  Instead you so often see the player marching 5 yards in front of his caddie like some kind of royalty preceding his retainers.  They don't even pull out the yardage book and start the shot planning process until they reach the ball.

I ride in a cart and I've still got most of that rough data in mind by the time I get to my ball.  I know I'm not playing for thousands of dollars on each shot, but I don't see that as relevant to the issue.  It's rare that I take more than about 20-25 seconds from arriving at the ball to playing my stroke, and that includes getting a measurement with my laser or GPS.  I'm willing to give the pros twice that much time.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by johnny2balls

I think the only way to get players attention is by assesing strokes for falling behind. Fines obviously won't do it.  It does not have to be the whole group, a single player can be singled out.  Every single player, caddie, PGA official, PGA crew and PGA wife know who the slow players are.

It is not a question of fines but there is a Rule 6-7 that prohibits slow play. In all golf competitions where there is a referee or rules official present there is a penalty for slow play to be assigned to a player who's group cannot keep up with the preceding group.

Normal routine is to give a player a warning for slow play and if he (and his group) does not speed up he is put on the clock. At this point the referee is measuring the time it takes for the player to make a stroke after it is his turn to play. If he still fails to keep up with the pace he gets a penalty shot, after that 2 penalties and finally he will be disqualified. This process may be slightly different in USGA areas but this is how it is done under R&A; jurastiction.

[johnny2balls]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny2balls

I think the only way to get players attention is by assesing strokes for falling behind. Fines obviously won't do it.  It does not have to be the whole group, a single player can be singled out.  Every single player, caddie, PGA official, PGA crew and PGA wife know who the slow players are.

It is not a question of fines but there is a Rule 6-7 that prohibits slow play. In all golf competitions where there is a referee or rules official present there is a penalty for slow play to be assigned to a player who's group cannot keep up with the preceding group.

Normal routine is to give a player a warning for slow play and if he (and his group) does not speed up he is put on the clock. At this point the referee is measuring the time it takes for the player to make a stroke after it is his turn to play. If he still fails to keep up with the pace he gets a penalty shot, after that 2 penalties and finally he will be disqualified. This process may be slightly different in USGA areas but this is how it is done under R&A; jurastiction.

I'm talking about the PGA, Nationwide and for the most part LPGA (they are at least trying to fix the problem)   Yes, there is rule 6-7 but in a PGA tournament there are no shots assesed for slow play.  They give out fines ($$$).  And as far as I know the fines and not made public.

It's not a USGA thing.  This is a PGA Tour thing. My point was that if the PGA started to hand out shots and eventually DQ a player, maybe just maybe we can fix this terrible problem. Fines are not going to do as we have seen and are seeing every week.   The vast majority of PGA players are fast golfers.

Out of curiosity what does the European Tour do for slow play?  Do they assess strokes or hand out fines?  But I imagine they don't have nearly the problem that the PGA Tour does.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny2balls

I think the only way to get players attention is by assesing strokes for falling behind. Fines obviously won't do it.  It does not have to be the whole group, a single player can be singled out.  Every single player, caddie, PGA official, PGA crew and PGA wife know who the slow players are.

It is not a question of fines but there is a Rule 6-7 that prohibits slow play. In all golf competitions where there is a referee or rules official present there is a penalty for slow play to be assigned to a player who's group cannot keep up with the preceding group.

Normal routine is to give a player a warning for slow play and if he (and his group) does not speed up he is put on the clock. At this point the referee is measuring the time it takes for the player to make a stroke after it is his turn to play. If he still fails to keep up with the pace he gets a penalty shot, after that 2 penalties and finally he will be disqualified. This process may be slightly different in USGA areas but this is how it is done under R&A; jurastiction.

That's how it's supposed to be, but I can't think of a single instance where PGA Tour officials have had the guts to actually impose a penalty.  I've heard of groups falling 2 holes behind without any action taken against them except the first warning.  They get put on the clock, but never get penalized.  Thus the Tour still has ridiculously long rounds, and that example is taken to the course by the viewers.

[johnny2balls]

The tour does give a penalty.  A financial pennalty.  We just never hear of it b/c it's all issued behind closed doors. I talked with players and they joke that Ben Crane must set up a slow play reserve account at the beginning of the season and just makes withdrawls from it as assessed.

What the tour does not do is give out stroke penalities.  For whatever reason.  Finchem needs to step up, mandate it and let it be done. It's the only thing that will work. Fines do not and will never work.

[Ignorant]

Putting a player on the clock is usually quite sufficient and a pro player (as well as any amateur) takes a serious hint seriously enough to speed up his/hers play. Also it is good to remember that an entire group is not on the clock but only one or more players. Thus it is easy to understand that actual penalizing is extremely rarely needed.

As far as slow play on Tours is concerned, it is my honest opinion that players are not put on clock easy enough, but that is hardly the referee's fault but lots of other parties are running the show, which means slight delays are not regarded as a problem as this means more time to advertisizers on TV etc.