How much have you improved, and why?

[Chief Broom]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

I think that golf instruction is poor overall. Nobody seems to agree, even on fundamentals. One says, traditional swings, the next says stack & tilt or natural golf or swing the handle. You name it.

I agree.  I'm a sceptic when it comes to golf instruction.  That's not to say that I don't believe that there is good golf instruction out there, because I do believe there are great teachers who can help just about anybody.  The trick I think is finding them.  I've always been impressed with iacas' approach.  Not so much his methodology, I don't know it from personal experience, but rather his common sense approach that says good teaching will produce a good result right away.  I will say in defense of even those poor teachers out there that golf instruction is hard.  The game is hard with a huge number of variables and when you add in the human ego (instructor's and student's) its no surprise to me that so many folks come away from lessons without showing lasting improvement.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

Erik, Do you teach the stack and tilt method?  If so, doesn't that speak to my argument about the state of golf instruction in general.  My general point is inconsistancey in teaching methods and s&t; certainly different and not "traditional".  I actually think its a good way to swing, but do you instructors and scratch players see how difficult it might be for us hacks to get anywhere when you guys (the golf establishment) keep changing what you tell us to do?

Pick any subject.  Politics, History, Education, Sports Instruction.  You will have to admit there are numerous opinions on the "correct" way to do things.  It is up to YOU to decide what is right for YOU.  Blaming golf instructors means you are not taking responsibility you your own game.  Do you think all scratch players got where they are by finding the perfect instruction?  Hell, no!  They found what things worked for them, and practiced until they could repeat it over and over.  Maybe it took two or three, or ten different approaches before they found it.  And, chances are, they are still searching for something else that will make them even better.

You are naive to think that somehow you will somehow be given divine instruction from above and you will automatically be a great golfer.  Dig it out for yourself, and stop blaming others.  Tough love, I know.  But it seems you need it.   Good Luck in finding your way.

[jwrussell]

I'll have to respond to this thread next year and hope I can post a significantly lower number than is in my current Handicap Index.  I've never gotten into the game far enough to see drastic improvement that would get me low in the handicap index.  I've shot 100 exactly once and it was when I was playing every week for the better part of a year.  I do remember that the biggest piece of advice I received at that time that really affected my score was to start thinking more about strategy and to start factorying in how risky a certain shot was versus the outcome.

As to the teaching conversation...I guess everyone has their opinion on the matter, but I have to say that it has never surprised me that there were so many different ways of teaching.  Each person is different and when you are trying to teach someone something with SO MANY variables, I don't know how we could expect every teaching approach to be similar.

[saevel25]

Alot of people have been playing this game different ways for many years. S&T just tries to consolidate all the good stuff. To me its a bit unatural for my swing type, so i choose what helps me. Thats me taking ownage of my own swing and not blaming it on the clubs, the ball, the course, its all me. If my ball barely clipped a tree, than i didn't play the shot right. If i hit a cart path, than i didn't hit the ball right. There are not bad bounces in golf, just mis shots.

I haven't improved much the past 2 years, because i haven't been serious. Though i think my changes are on the way to imrpoving. My putting improved as my short game went to nothing. Now my short game is on the rise, and my putting is still good as ever. So its time to push ball striking.

For me my key issues are,

Stop standing to close to the ball

Stop rolling the club head open in the backswing, learn how to properly hing the club.

Get the right synquence for the downswing.

Those are my major 3, just doing the first yesterday let me par in, on what would be a horrible round. So there is hope.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nleary9201

Erik, Do you teach the stack and tilt method?  If so, doesn't that speak to my argument about the state of golf instruction in general.

How many times have I agreed with you that the majority of instruction is poor? That's changing, but still... > 50% isn't as good as it "could" be. I know I've said this several times.

But I've also pointed out that you can't keep blaming "instruction" when 14% of golfers ever take instruction. The 86% that don't and which don't get any better are going to heavily weight the average against showing "overall golfer improvement." Furthermore, of the 14% who take instruction, what percentage of them actually work on what they're supposed to work on?

When it all comes down to it, you have 97% or more of golfers heavily weighing the averages against the 3% who are getting better. Stop blaming "instruction" in general. It flies in the face of the basic math.

Originally Posted by nleary9201

My general point is inconsistancey in teaching methods and s&t; certainly different and not "traditional".  I actually think its a good way to swing, but do you instructors and scratch players see how difficult it might be for us hacks to get anywhere when you guys (the golf establishment) keep changing what you tell us to do?

No. You're bashing instruction without having taken any. Even a lot of "poor" instruction out there can help you to get better, but you need to a) take the instruction, b) practice what you're asked to practice.

There are 100 ways to swing the golf club. Look at the PGA Tour. S&T isn't even a "one size fits all" model - it's simply a series of components, some of which are more important than others for each individual student .

There's no "consensus" out there, and demanding one before you take lessons sounds like a great way to suck for a long time when you could spend a little effort to find an instructor you believe is "good" and to work with him and to get better.

uttexas and Zeph have both improved - quite a bit - and we've never even met them in person. But they're in the 14% that took lessons, AND they're in the 20% or whatever of golfers who take lessons AND practice what they need to practice.