Is The Masters "easy" for Tiger Woods to win?

[henniebogan1966]

A frequent poster on this site has made the claim that Tiger Woods "c" game is as good as other players' "a" game at Augusta, therefore making it easier for him to compete for the win at Augusta. Therefore, his performances at Augusta cannot be used to gauge where his swing or his game are at.

So my question is this. If The Masters is easy for Tiger, then surely it was VERY easy for Jack who won 6 or Arnold who won 4. I mean it stands to reason that men who won as many or more than Tiger has there had it just as easy right?

What say you golf fans?

Here is the quote in question from the aforementioned poster.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What I'm saying is that Tiger's C at Augusta is the equivalent of most qualifier's B+ game and his B game is as good or better than all but the top player's A+ game.

Augusta is to Tiger what Turnberry is to Tom Watson - comfort food. Tiger played fantastic at Augusta and he re-injured his knee. There's really not much more to say about Augusta (for me anyway) than that.

[sean_miller]

Well it wasn't easy this year - lolz

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Well it wasn't easy this year - lolz

Where did Phil Mickelson and Bubba Watson finish? Oop!!! LOL

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Where did Phil Mickelson and Bubba Watson finish? Oop!!! LOL

Why did you only post an excerpt of my post? Why did you start an entire thread as an homage to a single comment I made? Did my post touch your heart in some special way?  Is this Tom Cruise?

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Why did you only post an excerpt of my post? Why did you start an entire thread as an homage to a single comment I made? Did my post touch your heart in some special way?  Is this Tom Cruise?

Actually I asked a question with this post, using your statement as the jumping off point for discussion.

Hey, I thought you weren't going to respond to me anymore? LOL

[jamo]

Is it "easy for Tiger to win the Masters?" No. But is it "relatively easier for Tiger to play well at the Masters?" Yes.

Having a wealth of knowledge and good memories can be a strong confidence boost. That said, I don't think that's why he played well this year. If that had been the case, he would have gotten the most help on the greens, where he was terrible this year. Last year though his swing was downright abysmal and he still came in fourth. He managed his way around a golf course that he has played more than all but a few people in the world. I now hate myself for giving in to the trolling. Congrats.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Why did you only post an excerpt of my post? Why did you start an entire thread as an homage to a single comment I made? Did my post touch your heart in some special way?  Is this Tom Cruise?

I think it's because Hennie thinks you complete him.  Or else, maybe you just had him at "hello".

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by jamo

Is it "easy for Tiger to win the Masters?" No. But is it "relatively easier for Tiger to play well at the Masters?" Yes.

Having a wealth of knowledge and good memories can be a strong confidence boost. That said, I don't think that's why he played well this year. If that had been the case, he would have gotten the most help on the greens, where he was terrible this year. Last year though his swing was downright abysmal and he still came in fourth. He managed his way around a golf course that he has played more than all but a few people in the world. I now hate myself for giving in to the trolling. Congrats.

I appreciate your reasoned and thoughtful response based on fact, not uninformed opinion. Believe me, this isn't intended as trolling. I've been fighting for what seems like years now to have reasoned discussion about Tiger Woods, the golfer. It's nearly impossible to find people that are reasonable in thought process when it comes to Tiger.

Yes, Tiger has good memories of Augusta. So does Phil. Heck Phil has a love affair going on with the place to listen to him talk about the place. Point is, none of that guarantees either of them success at Augusta. It certainly doesn't guarantee them a win or even a top five. If it does, then what does that say about the rest of the field if we're essentially going to say before the event starts that Tiger and Phil are guaranteed a top 5 or a win?

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I think it's because Hennie thinks you complete him.  Or else, maybe you just had him at "hello".

Hardly. Mr. Miller made a foolish comment about Tiger and Augusta and now he's paying for it. That's HIS fault.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

Hardly. Mr. Miller made a foolish comment about Tiger and Augusta and now he's paying for it. That's HIS fault.

So your response to what you think might be a foolish comment is to start another, even more foolish, thread?  Just so you can get "revenge" or some such nonsense?  Maybe that worked over at the Golf Channel, but I don't think you will have much luck over here with your silly payback games. What are you, 12?

[iacas]

If we had a popcorn smiley it would be getting a lot of use.

Hennie, I hereby prescribe two of these. Take them and don't call me in the morning:

[turtleback]

You had a fresh start but couldn't handle it.  Same old henny.

[StricklandPropane]

We had a rule at another message board I used to go to...

If you start a thread about someone, you lost.

-------

To answer the question though, I think playing the same course every year gives a bigger advantage to the better player, of which Tiger is the best.  I've often heard the Masters referred to as the Augusta Putting Championship.  It's relatively "easy" to hit your GIRs there, so your swing doesn't need to be as on point as some other places.  Tiger's putter isn't his main problem right now, and he knows the greens well there.

Having said that, I'm a 30-something handicap who isn't getting any better...on the verge of retirement.  I'm not allowed to comment until I win my 14 majors.

I've heard that heart surgeons have heart attacks induced before they're allowed to perform heart surgery.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by henniebogan1966

I appreciate your reasoned and thoughtful response based on fact, not uninformed opinion. Believe me, this isn't intended as trolling. I've been fighting for what seems like years now to have reasoned discussion about Tiger Woods, the golfer. It's nearly impossible to find people that are reasonable in thought process when it comes to Tiger.

Yes, Tiger has good memories of Augusta. So does Phil. Heck Phil has a love affair going on with the place to listen to him talk about the place. Point is, none of that guarantees either of them success at Augusta. It certainly doesn't guarantee them a win or even a top five. If it does, then what does that say about the rest of the field if we're essentially going to say before the event starts that Tiger and Phil are guaranteed a top 5 or a win?

Does is guarantee Tiger top 5? Of course not, there are few guarantees in life, but let me read off all of his Masters finishes since1997. Win, T8, T18, 5, win, win, T15, T22, T3, T2, 2, T6, T4, T4. Since 2005, he has come in the top 6 every year! That's unheard of. Tiger playing well at the Masters has become as sure an event as any in golf, even as he has played poorly.

Want me to read off Phil's finishes since 1999? T6, T7, 3, 3, 3, win, 10, win, T24, T5, T5, win, T27. Pretty much a sure thing there too.

What does that say about the rest of the field if Tiger and Phil are guaranteed a top 5 or a win? I guess they need to step their game up.

[B of H]

let me just say this:

I had a strained achilies and the idea of playing golf on it is painful to think about.  Mine would be fine for days then i'd turn a corner walking normally and all of the sudden i'd feel a pull...and it was hard to walk for days and I can't imagine trying to swing a club through on that leg.  I had a boot that I would take off and have this happen forcing me to put it back on for a few days then repeat.  During that time if the achilies was acting up i'd be in constant pain shooting up my leg.

the only way I could describe it is that if you think of the strained achilies as a rubber band that is tighter than normal and sometimes the tension drastically increases in an instant momentarily.  the pain being worse the tighter it felt and the more you used it.

[henniebogan1966]

Originally Posted by StricklandPropane

We had a rule at another message board I used to go to...

If you start a thread about someone, you lost.

-------

To answer the question though, I think playing the same course every year gives a bigger advantage to the better player, of which Tiger is the best.  I've often heard the Masters referred to as the Augusta Putting Championship.  It's relatively "easy" to hit your GIRs there, so your swing doesn't need to be as on point as some other places.  Tiger's putter isn't his main problem right now, and he knows the greens well there.

Having said that, I'm a 30-something handicap who isn't getting any better...on the verge of retirement.  I'm not allowed to comment until I win my 14 majors.

I've heard that heart surgeons have heart attacks induced before they're allowed to perform heart surgery.

There's nothing won or lost here. It is a discussion board. The poster made a statement regarding Tiger Woods and The Masters that I believe was somewhat silly in theory. It is further my belief he made this comment to somehow diminish how Tiger plays at Augusta as somehow not valid in use as a barometer for where Tiger's game might be at. Now if he is right in theory, then it means that either Augusta is once again a pitch and putt for Tiger and therefore a pitch and putt for most of those in the tourney. Or, it means for those who didn't play well there or have never won there after multiple attempts, that they REALLY need some serious work on their games.

For me, I simply believe that he's wrong and way off base with his theory. These guys are all very very good players or they wouldn't be on The PGA Tour and certainly wouldn't be playing in The Masters. (with the notable exceptions being some of the past winners who long ago passed their prime on The PGA Tour.) The fact is it takes very good play, smart play, and some luck to win any major, much less at Augusta. Yes, it takes a working knowledge of the course and more specifically the greens there to contend. But make no mistake, it takes talent to win there and that talent isn't solely based on "feeling comfortable there."

[turtleback]

Quote:

Does is guarantee Tiger top 5? Of course not, there are few guarantees in life, but let me read off all of his Masters finishes since1997. Win, T8, T18, 5, win, win, T15, T22, T3, T2, 2, T6, T4, T4. Since 2005, he has come in the top 6 every year! That's unheard of. Tiger playing well at the Masters has become as sure an event as any in golf, even as he has played poorly.

Want me to read off Phil's finishes since 1999? T6, T7, 3, 3, 3, win, 10, win, T24, T5, T5, win, T27. Pretty much a sure thing there too.

What does that say about the rest of the field if Tiger and Phil are guaranteed a top 5 or a win? I guess they need to step their game up.

Those are pretty good.

But how is this for a series of finishes in a major:

3  2  T12  1  2  T2  6  1  T5  2  4  3  T3  T2  2  1 T2  T4 .  18 years with only one finish out of the top 10 and 2 finishes out of the top 5.  That is Jack Nicklaus's record in the British Open from 1963 through 1980.   Pretty remarkable stuff and on a rota of courses.  Was the British Open too easy for Jack?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Those are pretty good.

But how is this for a series of finishes in a major:

3  2  T12  1  2  T2  6  1  T5  2  4  3  T3  T2  2  1 T2  T4.  18 years with only one finish out of the top 10 and 2 finishes out of the top 5.  That is Jack Nicklaus's record in the British Open from 1963 through 1980.   Pretty remarkable stuff and on a rota of courses.  Was the British Open too easy for Jack?

It's fitting that Jack's record at The British Open would be re-introduced into this discussion since I made a similar reference during a bit of dialogue that went on to inspire the OP to create this awesome thread.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What have other players got to do with this? You just posted (quite a few times) about Tiger's "71 PGA Tour wins and 14 Majors". That's all that matters in this discussion. Post it a million times over and it doesn't change the fact that the path he's on RIGHT NOW seems a bit off - by his own standards. Tiger Woods is a professional athlete who is not playing to his previous level of greatness. How much higher that level is/was than his peers - thanks for the stats btw - just illustrates how far down he's fallen. He's still ranked higher than all but 7 other golfers on the planet, so nobody's saying he's terrible by any standard, but if you can look at it objectively, do you honestly believe he's on the right path to recapturing his previous magic? With Foley?

Sure Brandel Chamblee seems to be obssessed with Tiger's descent, but come on man, could you possibly be any more ossessed with defending Tiger? Forget about rebuilds, injuries, personal problems. Read the review of Foley's instructional video (on this site) and tell me he wouldn't be better off switching it up a bit further and dumping that poser.

Quote:

Augusta is a batting practice fastball for Tiger, just like it was for Jack (and it could be argued like the British Open was for Jack and Tom Watson). They competed there regardless of how their games were because of their course knowledge and how well those events suit their games. They're built for Augusta National.

I hope Tiger comes back because golf is more interesting when he's around, but if Sean Foley is the guy to do it, I'll be shocked. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What I'm saying is that Tiger's C at Augusta is the equivalent of most qualifier's B+ game and his B game is as good or better than all but the top player's A+ game.

Augusta is to Tiger what Turnberry is to Tom Watson - comfort food. Tiger played fantastic at Augusta and he re-injured his knee. There's really not much more to say about Augusta (for me anyway) than that.