Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 6493 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
I like to play in alot of the local 2 man best ball, match play, and other tournaments. I was just curious if anybody else out there has run into the sandbaggers. Last summer I played against a guy in a match play tournament that said he was a 14 handicap and I had to give him 2 shots. He shot 2 over par. Now I know that us tweener handicappers can have a good day but this fellow went on to shoot 4 over the next day. Is this purely luck?

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Posted
Now that is sandy. I have problems finding a partener for these events. My handicap must be intimidating. Thats alright though. I would never let someone get away with it. It might be on the eleventh hole the second day of the tournament but somebody would have to four-foot the match. I'm betting it wouldn't be me. Hey I see your from Idaho want to play some time? 5 bucks a hole and buys the beer at the end? scratch play!

Posted
hell yeah sounds like fun. What part of Idaho you in feller? The way I figure you will be giving me 16 shots on 18 holes. Sounds like a party. Plus I am running a little low in the Bank account!! lol

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Posted
You must really be from Idaho man.... Where did you learn to spell? It is almost as bad as my spelling.

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Posted

I'm up for the Sandtrap Idaho Open

Driver - TaylorMade R9 460 10.5°
3 Wood - TaylotMade Burner Tour
3 & 4 Hybrids - Adams a7
Irons - R7 tp 5-PW
Wedges - Vokey SM Black Nickel - 52º - 56º - 60ºPutter - Scotty Cameron California - SonomaSkyCaddie - SG4Lowest Round - 68 - Par 72 /67.6/120Lowest Tournament Round - 69 -...

Posted
Probably not luck - but it may be.

I know guys that are mid single digits on their home course with very few bunkers or water, that can't break 90 when they show up to a course that has lots of hazards. I assume it'd work the other way around too - someone used to having 2 or 3 doubles per round because of water all of the sudden doesn't have to deal with it in a tournament and goes low.

Bret Schlyer
===========
Driver: 2009 Burner TP
3 wood: Ti Bubble
5 wood: Macgregor MacTec NGV

Hybrid: Nickent 3DX RC  3

Irons: Hireko XF Pro

SW/LW: Cleveland 588

Putter: Ping Anser


Posted
This isn't no freakin spelling v I signed up for buddy. I'm only hear to talk golf and help these high handicappers out.

What the heck is a spelling v?

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Yeah, that's what the "Slope System" is supposed to take care of... the variations in handicap due to the "toughness" of the course.

I know when I was in high school my handicap was between 3 and 6 and my home course was long, tree lined, lots of lateral water and lightning fast greens. Every once in a while our golf team would play a match at some shorter, wide open muni course and I'd shoot par (and a few times under) and I know I got some stares after the round.

hey schyler -- I see you're from Kansas also. I dunno about you but I feel like playing in the wind all the time here makes playing almost anywhere else in the country a lot easier! ;)

What's in my bag (most of the time)

Exotics 12°, Aldila VS Proto 65S
Exotics CB1 4W, 16.5°, Fujikura Stiff
3DX DC Ironwood 20°, 23°, 26º Hybrids, Proforce V2 Stiff Acer XP905 Pro 6-PW, Dynalite Gold S300Inazone CNC Spin Satin GW 50°/8°, SW 54°/14°, LW 58°/4°Boccieri...


Posted
Confusing post.
Driver-Taylor Made R7 460cc 10.5* Fujikara REAX Stiff
Fairway Wood-Taylor Made R7 Draw 15* Fujikara REAX Stiff
Hybrid Taylor Made 19* Rescue Mid Steel Stiff
4-PW-Golfsmith G40 TT Lite XL Stiff
GW-Ben Hogan Riviera 8* Bounce 50*SW-Ben Hogan Riviera Medium Bounce 56*LW-Cleveland 60* 588 ChromePutter-Taylo...

Posted
I totally agree with ya MGP.... Slope and course rating should make a difference on handicap. The issue that I am having is the fact that an honest person cant compete in these events. Thanks for your input. Have you noticed an abundance of sandbaggers around your clubs? If not what does your club do to combat these issues?

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Posted
I totally agree with ya MGP.... Slope and course rating should make a difference on handicap. The issue that I am having is the fact that an honest person cant compete in these events. Thanks for your input. Have you noticed an abundance of sandbaggers around your clubs? If not what does your club do to combat these issues?

ummmm rating does affect handicap. Your index gets you a different amount of strokes depending on the course rating. For instance I get three pops at my home course but on harder course in the area I get 4 pops.

Danny    In my :ping: Hoofer Tour golf bag on my :clicgear: 8.0 Cart

Driver:   :pxg: 0311 Gen 5  X-Stiff.                        Irons:  :callaway: 4-PW APEX TCB Irons 
3 Wood: :callaway: Mavrik SZ Rogue X-Stiff                            Nippon Pro Modus 130 X-Stiff
3 Hybrid: :callaway: Mavrik Pro KBS Tour Proto X   Wedges: :vokey:  50°, 54°, 60° 
Putter: :odyssey:  2-Ball Ten Arm Lock        Ball: :titleist: ProV 1

 

 

 

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
ummmm rating does affect handicap.

Thanks for pointing that out. I was agreeing with MGP on that matter. The problem is that rating doesnt compensate for these people that can't win unless they cheat. Last year I put all 86 rounds that I played in and I used that handicap. Some peolple only put in their high rounds and write off their low ones.

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Posted
I see sandbaggers all the time. A good friend of mine only posts the scores that he wants to post, not all of them. I played with a guy last year that would play holes that he knew he could not win with only his wedge and he would turn those scores in. I have seen 18 handicaps shoot 76 in tournaments which is virtually impossible.

Sandbagging is cheating. Same thing as kicking a ball out from under a bush or mis-marking your ball on purpose. It is frustrating as there is not much you can do. However, I will not let someone's lack of integrity affect my play or values.
In my bag:
Driver : 905R 9.5*
3 Wood: Big Bertha Titanium 15*
5 Wood: Big Bertha Titanium 19*
Irons : 755Wedges: Vokey 50* Wedges: 588 DSG 56* Putter: 2 Ball Lined Blade 35Ball : ProV1

Posted
Realistically, the course ratings don't factor in alot of stuff that can affect an individual player.

For example, 2 courses may have the exact same number of hazards, the one a guy plays all the time are 75% on the right side of the fairways, and the tournament course has them located 90% on the left side of the fairways. If this guy's misses are regularly to the right, he'll end up in alot more hazards at his home course (resulting in a higher handicap) than during the tourney.

Wind can be another factor that isn't taken into account by slope - playing on a protected course regularly then getting a tourney on a more exposed course with the wind blowing.

I obviously don't know whether these folks are sandbagging or not, but I don't find it odd when a 10 handicap shoots anything between Even Par and 100.

Bret Schlyer
===========
Driver: 2009 Burner TP
3 wood: Ti Bubble
5 wood: Macgregor MacTec NGV

Hybrid: Nickent 3DX RC  3

Irons: Hireko XF Pro

SW/LW: Cleveland 588

Putter: Ping Anser


  • 1 year later...
Posted
Lets revisit the Sandbaggers. Maybe we need to include the reverse sandbaggers. My Definition: A person that only puts in there lowest scores. Doesn't really hurt anyone but themselves. Funny stuff...

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Posted
Lets revisit the Sandbaggers. Maybe we need to include the reverse sandbaggers. My Definition: A person that only puts in there lowest scores. Doesn't really hurt anyone but themselves. Funny stuff...

We call the reverse baggers "Profilers." Just looking to up their personal profile for their own satisfaction. Love playing against those guys. Like you said, only hurts themselves.

Thing is though, a lot of these guys who go out there and give themselves 3 and 4 foot putts all day long have a hard time in tourneys when they need to actually putt out. So in a sense, there is a lot of unintentional reverse bagging or profiling going on. Then they start accusing everyone else of being a sandbagger.

Posted
We call the reverse baggers "Profilers." Just looking to up their personal profile for their own satisfaction. Love playing against those guys. Like you said, only hurts themselves.

That is awesome. Profilers..........LMAO I'm gonna use that one dude. We got some profilers on this forum......just doesn't take any scores on here......lol

In the bag:
Driver-:Launcher
Hybrid-:Srixon hybrids 3
Irons 4-PW-:
Wedges- Callaway X-tour "Mack Daddies"Putter-:mizuno bettinardiBall- Pro V1 ZUR c Bridgestone B330SThey call me the bus driver cuz I'll be taken your ass to school!!!!


Note: This thread is 6493 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • (Article appeared in the March 15, 2026 edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, p. 1) Dense fog covers the closed driving range at Ruth Park Golf Course in University City on Feb. 19, 2026. After University City attempted to use leftover dirt from Market at Olive building project to improve the driving range, complications arose and closed the range. ‘Free dirt’ proves costly for Ruth Park driving range By Nassim Benchaabane | Post-Dispatch // Photos by Liz Rymarev UNIVERSITY CITY — The dirt was supposed to be a gift. Developers hoping to bring a Target store to Olive Boulevard needed a place to dump thousands of truckloads of excavated dirt. University City offered to take the dirt at its popular golf course's driving range, in hopes it would fix long-standing erosion and stormwater runoff problems. The project was supposed to take three months.  The driving range at Ruth Park is still closed today. It's in worse condition than before. And it's on track to cost University City nearly $900,000 in lost revenue and future repairs. “The ‘free dirt’ and golf course improvements turned out to be not so free,” Darin Girdler, the city's parks director at the time, wrote in an internal memo in August. Records show the project was launched without a contract between the developer and the city, with no written plan for finishing the range after the dirt was dumped and graded, and without clear terms spelling out consequences if the job wasn't done correctly. Instead, city emails show, as the dirt sat there for months, and the erosion and runoff issues got worse, neither developers nor city officials took charge and solved the problems. University City did not make anyone available for an interview to explain how things went wrong. Former city manager Gregory Rose, Target developer Larry Chapman and excavation company Kolb Grading did not respond to requests for comment. Golfers and residents, meanwhile, have grown frustrated. One recent day, Jim Chambers, 69, of Shrewsbury, wondered whether the city should have taken the dirt at all. Chambers said he has golfed at Ruth Park for 32 years and almost always saw the driving range packed with golfers.  The range would get muddy when it rained, and the cracks in the ground left behind would make it hard to retrieve the balls, Chambers said. But the range was still "nice," he said. "It was fine without the dirt," he said. "It’s all erosion now."  A promise to fix the range The nine-hole University City Golf Course, as it was known then, opened in 1931. It was designed by Robert Foulis, who built some of the St. Louis region's most popular golf courses. It was well-liked by both casual and experienced golfers for its small size, ease and beauty.  The driving range, which had space for 25 golfers to hit balls simultaneously, was added in 2008, in an attempt to generate more revenue at the course, which had been operating at a deficit for years. It worked. By 2019, the golf course was successful enough that the city parceled it out of the budget as an "enterprise fund," along with other revenue generators like public parking garages and the city's waste collection program. Annual revenue grew to more than $320,000 by July 2024. But the driving range was also starting to show signs of wear and tear. It sloped downhill from Groby Road toward a wooded area. The irrigation was poor; water pooled at the north end. Erosion caused cracks in the earth that made it impossible for machines to sweep up and retrieve the balls. The city attempted fixes over the years, including in late 2022, when it closed the range for several months to install pipes meant to help drain stormwater. But by 2024, the range was still closing every Wednesday morning so that workers could retrieve balls by hand from the cracks in the ground. Then, that summer, the city thought it found a fix. University City announced it had arranged for Chapman's company, Seneca CRE, to have Kolb move about 46,000 cubic yards of dirt to the golf course to build two more forward tees at the first hole, create a new practice green, level the driving range and add two more acres of grass tee space there. The dirt came from excavation at the construction site for the Market at Olive Project, a $211 million shopping plaza at Interstate 170 and Olive Boulevard that includes Costco, Chick-fil-A, and Target. It was the largest economic development project in University City history, received $70 million in tax incentives, pushed out dozens of longtime homeowners and businesses, and was projected to generate millions in sales tax revenues. In July 2024 about 200 trucks started hauling dirt from the shopping plaza to the golf course one mile down the road for about 28 days. The city promised to post monthly updates for the public.  It never did.   Eroded field section of driving range. 'Have you stopped work?' The city council never voted on the plan to take the dirt. City leaders, in response to a public records request, said they had no written agreement regarding the project. Instead, developers and officials said the dirt needed to be moved promptly in order to secure Target as a tenant at the Market at Olive, the city emails show. St. Louis County, while reviewing the plan to stockpile dirt at Ruth Park, asked the developers to check with the region's sewer agency, the Metropolitan Sewer District, for approval that the project wouldn't impact stormwater management or sewer drains near the range. Disagreement on drainage Chapman, the Seneca president, balked, arguing the dirt wouldn't change the way water flows on the driving range or create an impervious surface. In an email to officials including Rose, the city manager then, and County Executive Sam Page, he said if the work didn't start immediately, they'd have to pay $300,000 to move the dirt to St. Charles instead — or risk losing Target as a tenant. "All we’re trying to do is keep an important economic development project going forward and to help the City out by providing some desired fill material to their golf course," Chapman wrote in the July email. Rose wrote to the county asking it to issue the permit "as promptly as possible" because the work was "critical to economic development."  The next day MSD approved the project without requiring a formal application, based on a plan that had been submitted by engineering firm Stock and Associates, whom Seneca had hired. The plan the county approved called for stockpiling and grading dirt across roughly 3.8 acres of the driving range. But neither city staff nor the developers appeared to have a detailed plan for how things would proceed. Email records show Seneca, Kolb and city officials bouncing questions back and forth over how much dirt would be moved and when, when the golf course would need to close, if the appropriate county, state and MSD protections were in place, and who was responsible for grading the dirt, laying sod or seeds down and making other finishing touches.  In a late August email, Girdler, then the city parks chief, asked about the dirt sitting on the range.  "Have you stopped work at the Golf Course?" Girdler wrote to Seneca and Kolb. "I don’t think you have finished all of the grading, have you?" In September, at least one complaint to the city parks commission said the new dirt made the downhill slope from Groby Road worse, and was actually blocking the view of targets down the range. County inspectors found that the dirt had overrun tarp fencing meant to keep it from seeping downhill into sewer inlets, that dust was getting kicked up into the air, and that failing to reseed the dirt for months only worsened erosion across the range. And golfers were taking notice.  "In my humble opinion, our City Fathers made the mistake of believing the developers again," one resident, Steven Goldstein, wrote in an email to the city parks commission. "And the taxpayers will pay an excessive price for the 'once in a lifetime' gift of 'free dirt' at the driving range."  'Is there no way to hurry this up?' By spring of 2025, nothing had been resolved. Girdler told Seneca and Kolb that the dirt still needed to be graded again to match the original plans, that the drainage system needed to be fixed, and that the dirt needed to be seeded and irrigated. Chapman said Seneca had fulfilled its original agreement with University City, and gone above and beyond to grade the dirt a second time after golfers complained the range was too steep. He pushed the city to try to take ownership of the county land disturbance permit, which required the holder to maintain silt fencing and other stormwater protections, or hire a new contractor to take it over.  "I just need to let MSD know we are done with our portion of the work," Chapman wrote in an email to Rose in late June. In August, University City paid $71,000 to hire Navigate Solutions, a construction consultant firm. Navigate told the city council it would take 13 months to fix the range, including hiring an engineering firm to come up with a new design, and applying for approval from MSD. City officials were frustrated.  "Is there no way to hurry this up?" Mayor Terry Crow said at a council meeting then. "No offense, but this is like death by a thousand cuts." Girdler, in an internal memo, said employees were frustrated, too. "Many things were promised way back in May/June of 2024 that were not delivered on," Girdler wrote. "The City, at least staff, expected a finished project or at least mostly finished. It was never the intent of the City to be in the position to have to spend so much money or time on completing this project." Girdler left the city that month. He declined comment.  'It made a bad situation worse' The driving range is still violating county land disturbance and stormwater regulations, according to recent inspection reports. Brooke Sharp, now deputy city manager after Rose's retirement, acknowledged at a recent council meeting that city staff "didn't have a thorough explanation" of what went wrong. "Essentially the dirt was requested without a plan in place and it made a bad situation worse," Sharp said. The city has estimated it will cost at least $200,000 to hire a construction company to fix the range, in addition to payments to Navigate Solutions. The city did not provide an estimate for how much revenue it lost since the driving range's closure. But critics have pointed to the $300,000 it made the year before it closed, and estimated the city will have lost more than $600,000 by the time it reopens. This month, during a "state of the city" address, Mayor Crow vowed the project would get fixed.  "Out of the goodness of our heart, and the fact that we really wanted Target to come here, we took a quarter of a million dollars worth of free dirt," said Crow, who is running for reelection April 7 and faces a challenge from Councilman Bwayne Smotherson.  "And it’s been the most painful quarter of million dollars worth of free dirt I’ve ever had in my life." 
    • I guess Arberg is now ARRRRRGBerg. Self destructing on the back nine.
    • I mean… It's a TaylorMade promo.
    • This is so cool that they did this, I wish they would do this casually more often
    • Wordle 1,730 5/6 🟨🟨⬜⬜🟩 ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ ⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩 ⬜🟩🟩⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.