Wedge gaps

[DarkPrince]

So I've had my new irons for a month or so now, and I'm still trying to figure out what to do about the fact that my pitching wedge is now 44* instead of 48*. I used to carry 48* (PW), 52*, 56*, 60*, but for now I've had to take the 48* pw out of my old set and put it in just for distance coverage.  I'm looking at something like 48 54 60 or something ,or 50,54,58 possible. My problem is that it's like only 2 companies actually have 48 or 50 wedges that exist or stores have in stock without special ordering. I know Vokeys have the biggest loft/bounce options and they go all the way down to 48, Callaway jaws wedges I can find down to 50 as well as the Wilson Staff wedges, and Clevelands go down to 48 as well. I can't seem to find anyone who has wedges you could actually hit any any store. When I went to the demo day I was looking at irons only so I didn't bother touching wedges other than to warm up so I dropped the ball on that :P

Currently I think my 52 is around 115-120, 56 is 100-110, and 60 is 80-100 on full swings. my problems is my new "PW" goes like 135-140.  With the 48* extra pW in the bag I've had to take out a long iron (or hybrid depending on the day) to make room for it, and it hasn't bothered me too much except on LONG par 3's and long par 4's, but atm I'm going D,3w,4i,5,6,7,8,9,pw,pw*,52,56,60,putter. The other funny thing is I'm starting to hit the old PW as hard/far as my new PW despite the 4* difference. I don't know if it has to do with the different designs or what but the old one was a blade and the new is a player/gI cavity? I'd like to find a good balance to cover the 44-60* if anyone has any ideas?  I'm not looking to rip back wedges or tear apart balls or anything so that's not really my focus.

Oh yeah atm I'm playing

Nike SVTour 52*

Taylormade Z-TP 56*
Nike SVTour 60*

[glock35ipsc]

This is the problem created when they start jacking with the lofts and club lengths like this.  Arrrggg!!  Your new PW is my 9 iron.

D (?°), 3w (15°), 4i (23°), 5 (26°), 6 (29°), 7 (32°), 8 (36°), 9 (40°), PW (44°), Wilson Staff GW (48°) , 52°, 56°, 60°, putter?  To bridge the gap between the 3w and 4i, maybe hit the 3w gripped down and/or a shorter swing?  And maybe adjust the length of the 52°, 56°, and 60° to be in step with the rest of the short irons?  Wilson steps theirs down by 1/2" increments until the PW, then the PW, GW and SW are all the same length and lie, and are 1/2" longer than most sets are "standard" (I use that word losely).

Most specs I've looked at have the PW and GW the same length, so maybe your old PW is longer than the new one, or maybe you just haven't got into a groove with the new one yet?

[LankyLefty]

I'm gonna be honest, I have a 48 52 56 and 60 and All I ever use are the 48 and 56... From under 125 yards I find controlling distance with a short swing to be highly effective.

Maybe I'm just weird but I dont like having to take a full swing form 100 yards, I prefer being able to take a smaller half or less swing that I feel like I can shape more to the needs of the landing area.

[nickel_aTm]

Same for me.  Anything less than 105-110 out, I prefer hitting a 3/4 shot.  The only time I ever hit the 60* was around the green if I was short-sided. I'm fine just opening up the 56* a little if needed.
For that reason, I took my 60* out of the bag last year and replaced it with another hybrid.

  LankyLefty said:

Originally Posted by LankyLefty

Maybe I'm just weird but I dont like having to take a full swing form 100 yards, I prefer being able to take a smaller half or less swing that I feel like I can shape more to the needs of the landing area.

[lumpuckeroo]

You could have a 50 bent to 48, almost all clubs can be bent +/- 2 degrees.

[DarkPrince]

This was what I was probably going to do. I can get the Callaway jaws wedges or the Wilson Staff FG Tour wedges for a discounted rate through work....but the callaway ones I get a much better deal on. since the demo days are essentially over for the fiscal/calendar year, It's pretty much a crap shoot whatever I buy, but I could buy the 52/54/58 and get the 52 bent to 50 or something. I can't really justify dropping $360 +shipping on 3 vokeys or clevelands when I can get others legitimately for a fraction :/

  lumpuckeroo said:

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

You could have a 50 bent to 48, almost all clubs can be bent +/- 2 degrees.

[Long Ball Larry]

I apologize if this is not helpful, but I would trade in the irons. Seven clubs covering a range of only 21 degrees is ridiculous, and I'm not a fan of the idea of tweaking the lofts on pretty much all of them to integrate them into your set. You seem adamant about having a four-wedge setup, so I would get irons that have relatively standard lofts (something like a 43* 9i and 47* PW). Then get the discounted Callaways/Wilsons in 52/56/60 and you'd then have room for your 5w or 3h or whatever. If you insist on sticking with this set, I would just bend them all to standard lofts, because not playing anything between a 3w and 4i is a bad idea IMO. Good luck!

[DarkPrince]

From what I understand, cavity backs, or at least this design, require stronger lofts because the low/perimeter weighting is too good at getting the ball in the air, if they left them at weaker "standard" lofts, the shots would balloon. My old Taylormade Rac MB TP's were almost full on blades so they needed the extra loft to get the ball in the air which I inappropriately combined with a flighted rifle shaft that I guess made them fly high anyway :P  Honestly from trying a multitude of different sets at demo days and shops, this was the set that I liked the most. I get that people call it a "4 wedge setup" because pitching wedge has wedge in the name....but I in no way use it as what I would term a wedge because i only use it for full or maybe 3/4 shots. The 52/56/60 are the real wedges that are actually for the goofy shots around the green. I might use a PW or 9i for a long bump/run chip, but that's the extent of their use around greens lol.

Even if I wanted to trade these in, I dropped 400 bucks and would maybe get 85 back in trade in (current price) since they are used, and I doubt i'd make much money on ebay since they are customized at 2* flat for the lie angle and only 4-pw instead of 3-GW or 4-GW. The lofts between these and the other set I liked (Mizuno JPX800 Pro) were the same or 1* weaker throughout the set. I think it's really just the design of this style of club. (Also, as they are a cast iron set, I cannot have them bent at all at the risk of snapping the hozel in two).

  Long Ball Larry said:

Originally Posted by Long Ball Larry

I apologize if this is not helpful, but I would trade in the irons. Seven clubs covering a range of only 21 degrees is ridiculous, and I'm not a fan of the idea of tweaking the lofts on pretty much all of them to integrate them into your set. You seem adamant about having a four-wedge setup, so I would get irons that have relatively standard lofts (something like a 43* 9i and 47* PW). Then get the discounted Callaways/Wilsons in 52/56/60 and you'd then have room for your 5w or 3h or whatever. If you insist on sticking with this set, I would just bend them all to standard lofts, because not playing anything between a 3w and 4i is a bad idea IMO. Good luck!

[DarkPrince]

Quote:

D (?°), 3w (15°), 4i (23°), 5 (26°), 6 (29°), 7 (32°), 8 (36°), 9 (40°), PW (44°), Wilson Staff GW (48°) , 52°, 56°, 60°, putter?

At the moment it's

D (9.5º),

3w (15°)

Wilson Staff Ci9 [4i (23°), 5 (26°), 6 (29°), 7 (32°), 8 (36°), 9 (40°), PW (44°)]

Taylormade Rac MB TP Smoke PW (48°) ,

52°, 56°, 60°

putter

Right now I'm hitting my 4 iron exponentially better than my 4 hybrid (*cough* duck hooks *cough*) and thanks to having to bridge the gap, I had to take my 3 hybrid out (which I might be replacing with something else anyway...hit one of those Adams ProBlack hybrids....om*g bullet) so I'm kind of SOL on long par 3's, it's hit 4 iron and hope the fwy is firm enough to bounce on the front, or choke down on 3 wood and hope I don't hit a low burning squirter off to the right into the trees.

[Long Ball Larry]

Sounds like bending the irons is the best option then? Maybe make the PW 48 since your wedges are 52-56-60 and go down in four-degree increments? This was my logic when I took out my AW, added a 3i, and bought new wedges. I had my PW bent from 47 to 48 so the new lofts were 43-48-54-60 and had reasonable gaps.

  DarkPrince said:

From what I understand, cavity backs, or at least this design, require stronger lofts because the low/perimeter weighting is too good at getting the ball in the air, if they left them at weaker "standard" lofts, the shots would balloon. My old Taylormade Rac MB TP's were almost full on blades so they needed the extra loft to get the ball in the air which I inappropriately combined with a flighted rifle shaft that I guess made them fly high anyway :P  Honestly from trying a multitude of different sets at demo days and shops, this was the set that I liked the most. I get that people call it a "4 wedge setup" because pitching wedge has wedge in the name....but I in no way use it as what I would term a wedge because i only use it for full or maybe 3/4 shots. The 52/56/60 are the real wedges that are actually for the goofy shots around the green. I might use a PW or 9i for a long bump/run chip, but that's the extent of their use around greens lol.

Even if I wanted to trade these in, I dropped 400 bucks and would maybe get 85 back in trade in (current price) since they are used, and I doubt i'd make much money on ebay since they are customized at 2* flat for the lie angle and only 4-pw instead of 3-GW or 4-GW. The lofts between these and the other set I liked (Mizuno JPX800 Pro) were the same or 1* weaker throughout the set. I think it's really just the design of this style of club. (Also, as they are a cast iron set, I cannot have them bent at all at the risk of snapping the hozel in two).

[DarkPrince]

As i said at the end of that post, it's not possible to bend the wilsons because they are cast. Even trying to get half a degree out of them can snap the hosel. Wedges can be bent because they are cast out of much softer types of steel, but the ones used for normal irons isn't pliable enough.

  Long Ball Larry said:

Originally Posted by Long Ball Larry

Sounds like bending the irons is the best option then? Maybe make the PW 48 since your wedges are 52-56-60 and go down in four-degree increments? This was my logic when I took out my AW, added a 3i, and bought new wedges. I had my PW bent from 47 to 48 so the new lofts were 43-48-54-60 and had reasonable gaps.

[Long Ball Larry]

Oops, didn't see that. My bad.

  DarkPrince said:

As i said at the end of that post, it's not possible to bend the wilsons because they are cast. Even trying to get half a degree out of them can snap the hosel. Wedges can be bent because they are cast out of much softer types of steel, but the ones used for normal irons isn't pliable enough.

[WUTiger]

I would suggest getting a 50* wedge. Either add an outsider, or bend the 48* or the 52*. (If you increase loft on 48*, you'll gain 2* bounce / if you strengthen 52*, you'll lose 2* bounce).

If you need to shave yardage on a 50* shot, you can choke up a little bit.

[DarkPrince]

I'm really leaning 50/54/58. I don't mind losing a little bounce because even my 52 I tend to use mainly on full shots and maybe every once in a great while a long running bunker shot or bump/run. Bending it would drop the bounce from 10 to 8, 10 seems excessive as it is for a 52 or at least to me.

  WUTiger said:

Originally Posted by WUTiger

I would suggest getting a 50* wedge. Either add an outsider, or bend the 48* or the 52*. (If you increase loft on 48*, you'll gain 2* bounce / if you strengthen 52*, you'll lose 2* bounce).

If you need to shave yardage on a 50* shot, you can choke up a little bit.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

  DarkPrince said:

DarkPrince said (earlier in thread)...

From what I understand, cavity backs, or at least this design, require stronger lofts because the low/perimeter weighting is too good at getting the ball in the air, if they left them at weaker "standard" lofts, the shots would balloon.

More details on what happened. Cavity backs got ball higher into air, and the concern was a slight loss of yardage. So that early Pings didn't lose the yardage race, designers strengthened lofts about 2* to hold the line on distance.

Good adjustment, until the marketing wizards hijacked the idea. Suddenly, there's a push to have a 7 iron that the average guy can hit 170 yards. Along with shaft improvements, you get this by making lofts stronger. Ever stronger lofts led to two problems:

• PW gets stronger, but SW stays about 56* so that it can get the ball out of bunkers. PW to SW loft gap becomes 8 to 10*, so we have invent.... you guessed it, gap wedges .
• At one time some 3i had 24* loft, but in some of the recent Cobra and TaylorMade stuff the 3i has 19* loft. Hence, it's harder to get the longer irons up, which increases the need for hybrids.

[jsocas]

From what you've said, it looks like your new PW is going as far or a little bit longer than your old one. Probably the best thing to do is to wait until you have a good feeling of what the real distance of your new PW is and then look to how fill the gap. I think it might be better for you just to bend your 52 to 50, that will give you a 120-125 yds club and then you can probably bring down the 56 to 55. This will decrease the bounce of your gw by 2* and the sw by 1* that shouldn't affect much the way they play unless they have very little bounce to start with. This setting will give you 5* of loft between your wedges. I've been in a similar situation with my setting until I decided for my current one.

[NuclearMike]

I have Wilson Staff irons as well.  The Di9 wedges are lofted at PW 42, AW 45.5, and GW 49 degrees.  The rest of the irons down from the wedges differ by 3.5 degrees.  This leaves a substantial gap in distance between the Di9s and my 56 degree sand wedge.  Since I'm back after a layoff I'm still trying to confirm my distances for each of the new clubs when hit properly.  I'm practicing 3/4 shots with the Wilsons to compensate at this time but the advice about getting something at 52 or 53 degrees seems the way to go.  The difference to me in new technology SGI irons is that I think that I'm one club longer based on loft and a second club longer based on technology.

[TourSpoon]

OK, Larry has a valid point to bend your clubs but you never want to go more than a degree or two  because of the bounce characteristics (yes cast can be bent).  The set you have has some very narrow spacing in the longer irons and carries 3 degrees between the 4-7 iron that robs you at the short iron end: 4i (23°), 5 (26°), 6 (29°), 7 (32°), 8 (36°), 9 (40°), PW (44°).  I would look into bending a little and see how that goes on the course.  You could go 4-lw: 22, 25, 29, 33, 37, 41, 45, 50, 55, 60 and have a little more spacing at both ends.  Throw in your driver, 3w, hybrid and a putter and you are good to go.