Scratch wedges. how good are they?

[handlez42]

im in desperate need of new wedges. although the wedges i have are nicely shaped and have those sharp box grooves that everyone seems to love, i just dont know if im getting the most out of them

Ram Tom Watson BeCu 55* SW and Ram Tom Watson 60* SW

I noticed the 60 wedge although has a 14* "rake" on it, which makes it fantastic out of the sand, i cant really get the club comfortable on those greenside flops. plus i think the bounce might be hurting its short range fairway play. the BeCu is fairly solid and has slightly less bounce i think maybe 10* if i guess? they arent the softest in terms of feel and even good shots are rather too firm.

I noticed Scratch wedges all over certain websites that sell them and i figured they were a bit too highly priced for my budget but they also are one of the few companies offering wedges with many different avenues in customization of the clubs actual specs. They have 3 types. yet im not sure of how important each type is considering some are specific to non aggressive players where as i tend to be creative with shots and move the ball around in my stance a bit.

Anyways,

Anybody have any feedback on Scratch? Since my last wedge post has got little to no help on wedges and specific kinds. Also is there any help on specific bounce deg for a higher lofted wedge? preferrably a 58. I'd like to open the face but im not sure if the bounce holds back the ability to open the face, as well as hurt its tight lie capabilities. Just a spec-wedge even from rough to fairway.

I've considered a few kinds:

Tour Edge Exotics Xtreme spin tour black.

Wilson staff fg Tour

Scratch (CNC version)

Adams Watson Black (2011)

Most of which dont have much feedback other than the watson which has raving reviews and to be honest anything but Vokeys are unusual to see around here.

P.S. Are Vokeys' really THAT good? i swung one around a bit and didnt find any special thing about it accept its price. which i expected to be much higher like scotty putters (over-priced)

[jpalermo]

I have had a few, i have mizuno wedges.... love them to death....

[handlez42]

  jpalermo said:

Originally Posted by jpalermo

I have had a few, i have mizuno wedges.... love them to death....

mizuno wedges you love? im not sure which one of mizunos wedges is actually their newest/newer kinds. or how they are in terms of options for each loft.

[Shorty]

  handlez42 said:

Originally Posted by handlez42

mizuno wedges you love? im not sure which one of mizunos wedges is actually their newest/newer kinds. or how they are in terms of options for each loft.

If you go to te Mizuno website they'll have all the information you need.

[rebby]

I've played Scratch wedges. Still have mine. I'd play them more but I made the change to CC grooves this year and my Scratch wedges are not conforming. Scratch wedges are some of the best made. I rank them right up there with my Miura wedges for sure.

[Laws of Woo]

I play Scratch wedges and I love them. Right from their website you can customize a lot on the wedges (some for no upcharge). Stamping/paintfill, lie, length, loft, shaft, grip, and sole grind (bounce). They have a quick and simple little fitting questionnaire that will determine the type of swing you have to fit you with a sole grind.

They have 3 models to chose from: 8620 Milled (~$100), 1018 Forged (~$150), and a Tour Custom (~$350)

I have not hit the 1018 yet but I have a set of 8620 Milled wedges and they are great wedges. They are milled similar to Vokeys but at a slightly cheaper price (but same or better quality). For me they performed a lot better than the Vokeys and similar Clevelands. I have a 56 and a 60 in Sweeper/Slider (Low Bounce) and I have no problems opening the face when I need to. They have a slightly smaller head than some wedges, but I personally like them that way. The grooves on mine are the older Non-CC grooves, but you can order them now with conforming grooves if you want/need them. Combination of the milling and the grooves, I can spin the ball a lot better than I could with other wedges.

[xxsoultonesxx]

I have 4 Scratch wedges. A set of 8620's(53* bent to 51*, 56*, and 60) and one of their JLM series 56*, which is a forged wedge, similar to their current 1018 wedges.

The 8620's are very much like a spin milled vokey in shape, size, and feel. These have a rounded leading edge. The ABC grooves are aggressive and will spin the hell out of a ball.

The JLM (forged) wedge has a bit more heft to it, and a relatively flat leading edge, and to me feels more like a callaway forging in terms of weight and spin.

And they look good, too...these are my 8620's (sorry no pic handy of the JLM)

[handlez42]

Are the ABC wedge grooves conforming like the vokeys? they look beautiful and unfortunately i priced the 8620s and it ended up being about 130 because i chose the Nippon 950 shaft. Im just unsure of which types of there 3 designs to choose from. i want my 58 to be easy to open without lifting the leading edge off the ground and am considering a 53 bent to 54 with mid-high bounce for most sand shots...but it's mostly the DD DS SS options im unsure of on top off the two options for each type...

I never worried about conforming grooves but my ram Tom warsons have box grooves and I've considered tourney or mini tour play...im also hearing good things about mizunos and Miura (never heard of them) and Adams as well as Wilson but scratch seems to have a straight wedge game approach in terms of marketing so I wouldn't mind a company with that focus in mind

[Mr. Desmond]

The question is -- do you know how to use a wedge?

And possibly you haven't received good replies because your post is not clear as to who you are as a player, what you want in a wedge, and whether you pick or dig, or hit it thin and fat...

Scratch wedges are very good - if you know what you want, I might advise one in your highest lofted wedge if you use that wedge for almost everything around the green. I think most makers offer a 58 that is fairly versatile - I would say versatile means 10-12 of bounce with heel, toe, and relief along the back edge with a medium-ish wide sole.

For a 50 or a 54, it depends on whether you use them much around the green -- in that setup, I'll use a 58 for almost everything. So I think a standard sole grind is generally fine for the lower lofts-- if you want Scratch, spend your money on a custom grind on the higher loft. Of course, they have an 8620 wedge for $99. But what you'll find is that the Scratch head is not big ... that might cause players some problems. My experience with Scratch is that if you practice with them a lot, look elsewhere. You're spending a lot of green for grooves that wear -- or buy their 8620 for $99.

Vokeys are good - the 58/12 is what Stan Utley advises if you want to use one wedge for almost everything around the green.

Having said that, I don't have Vokeys in the bag ... I mean, almost every OEM wedge is very good -- see what shape/design looks good to you, then take a look at the grind.

[GaijinGolfer]

Scratch wedges are great.  Theyre pretty pricey though.

[handlez42]

  Mr. Desmond said:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

The question is -- do you know how to use a wedge?

And possibly you haven't received good replies because your post is not clear as to who you are as a player, what you want in a wedge, and whether you pick or dig, or hit it thin and fat...

Scratch wedges are very good - if you know what you want, I might advise one in your highest lofted wedge if you use that wedge for almost everything around the green. I think most makers offer a 58 that is fairly versatile - I would say versatile means 10-12 of bounce with heel, toe, and relief along the back edge with a medium-ish wide sole.

For a 50 or a 54, it depends on whether you use them much around the green -- in that setup, I'll use a 58 for almost everything. So I think a standard sole grind is generally fine for the lower lofts-- if you want Scratch, spend your money on a custom grind on the higher loft. Of course, they have an 8620 wedge for $99. But what you'll find is that the Scratch head is not big ... that might cause players some problems. My experience with Scratch is that if you practice with them a lot, look elsewhere. You're spending a lot of green for grooves that wear -- or buy their 8620 for $99.

Vokeys are good - the 58/12 is what Stan Utley advises if you want to use one wedge for almost everything around the green.

Having said that, I don't have Vokeys in the bag ... I mean, almost every OEM wedge is very good -- see what shape/design looks good to you, then take a look at the grind.

If I didnt know how to use a wedge then I wouldn't even ask about buying a quality/pricey wedge such as scratch. I use a different wedge for mostly every short game shot. The 50 is important to me because I have a rather large gap between my P wedge and 55 and its too large of a gap to try and maneuver.

I have a 60/14 and it for a while was an everything club but now Im creative around greens taking wind, slope, lie (angle), and many other things taken into consideration. For instance on greenside shots where i have little rough and more green in front of my ill chip with a 55 opposed the 60 to run it out or keep it below wind. If i short wide myself ill use the 60. Pretty simple. Using a wedge really isn't for the "better" player (single dig hdcp) its a club(s) that give many more options

And my only concern were the 3 particular designs that scratch offers. For instance i don't want a mid-wedge to have too much bounce to hurt its tight loe capabilities. But id like to have the option to use that club on open bunker shots. The high loft wedge I'd want for opening the face on short side shots without lifting the leading edge too much. Which means a specific grind on the heel.

[Laws of Woo]

What wedges are you planning on keeping or getting...loft wise, and what are you looking to do with them?

The 2 sub categories on the Scratch website referring to grind, is chosen for you depending on the loft of the club you want. One grind is only available for wedges in the 47*-56*, while the other is for your 58*-60* lob wedges. Only time you really get to/need to choose which sub category you need/want is if your ordering a completely custom tour model (the $350 one).

[handlez42]

  Laws of Woo said:

Originally Posted by Laws of Woo

What wedges are you planning on keeping or getting...loft wise, and what are you looking to do with them?

The 2 sub categories on the Scratch website referring to grind, is chosen for you depending on the loft of the club you want. One grind is only available for wedges in the 47*-56*, while the other is for your 58*-60* lob wedges. Only time you really get to/need to choose which sub category you need/want is if your ordering a completely custom tour model (the $350 one).

I intendon replacing both my wedges (60/14 ,55/ uknown) while adding a long wedge (50-51) or gap wedge. I'd probly bend the 53* option they have up to 54 or 55 to ensure the bounce works well with the loft for bunker shots. My only concern is bounce for either the 58 or the 53. Generally the mid wedge has roughly 10+ bounce degree and the lob has as low as 8 (from what I see as specific few options certain companies offer (which doesn't include custom/numerous options by vokeys and scratch Cleveland etc) should the mid wedge gave more bounce? Or should the high-loft have more bounce? Like I said I'd prefer the lob wedge to have the ability of opening up for flop shots and I noticed that scratch offers a higher bounce option with a grinded heel, sole, etc. But would the bounce hurt flop characteristics? The 53* (or probly 54) I would like to be versatile decent from fairway but still capable of bounce. And the 50 I'd like to play pretty much like another wedge for my iron set. My Wilson staff fg tours have generous leading edges to avoid terrible digging problems but idk how scratchs' option of "digger/driver" is around the same or because of the design is much sharper like an old school blade. In which id decide on the driver/slider option.

[Hokie2k5]

I've had Scratch wedges for 2 seasons now and I'm not sure I'd play anything else at this point.  I played Vokeys and Clevelands for years until I found Sratch.  The feel is second to none and the different grinds and loft choices are awesome.  They are pricey but with the prices of Vokeys going up the two are really within $15 or $20 of each other now.

[Mr. Desmond]

  handlez42 said:

Originally Posted by handlez42

If I didnt know how to use a wedge then I wouldn't even ask about buying a quality/pricey wedge such as scratch. I use a different wedge for mostly every short game shot. The 50 is important to me because I have a rather large gap between my P wedge and 55 and its too large of a gap to try and maneuver.

I have a 60/14 and it for a while was an everything club but now Im creative around greens taking wind, slope, lie (angle), and many other things taken into consideration. For instance on greenside shots where i have little rough and more green in front of my ill chip with a 55 opposed the 60 to run it out or keep it below wind. If i short wide myself ill use the 60. Pretty simple. Using a wedge really isn't for the "better" player (single dig hdcp) its a club(s) that give many more options

And my only concern were the 3 particular designs that scratch offers. For instance i don't want a mid-wedge to have too much bounce to hurt its tight loe capabilities. But id like to have the option to use that club on open bunker shots. The high loft wedge I'd want for opening the face on short side shots without lifting the leading edge too much. Which means a specific grind on the heel.

I've been on these boards for over 10 years, so I've seen a lot of questions. People ask about Scratch or Vokey, etc., but don't tell us about their skills as a wedge player. So if my posts are taken personally, they can offend  -- first rule of internet - don't take anything personally :-)

Scratch will tell you if you take a big divot consistently - then you want bounce to prevent digging; and the converse goes with it if you pick (shallow divot); or you get a tweener grind if you're inconsistent.

I've had custom Tour Grinds and the 1018 off the shelf in Scratch. The best Scratch wedge I owned was a custom grind whose face was milled. From what I hear, they don't do that any longer with 1018 or customs. Why? I don't know. You get the milling with the 8620.

My experience with 1018s is -- don't hit too many range balls and do clean the face frequently when practicing - the steel is soft and wears -- heck, I practiced too much a few years ago as did my son - and the grooves did wear within 6 months. Now I have Miura 1957's and don't practice as much. It's a balance - my short game is not as good as it once was... back to your question...

Scratch heads are small - beware - that is good for maneuverability, bad for errors.

Go to the Scratch website, and look for a grind on the 50 that has worked for you in the past, or take their test, or better, call Patrick (?) at Scratch. As stated previously, if you want Scratch, I'd go 8620. I've heard lots of great comments about the 8620. The 58 or 60 Egg grind is a nice tweener grind with relief, but ask Scratch. If you must have a custom grind - I'd save it for your highest lofted wedge - I find a 58 normally more versatile than a 60 although a 60 will give you more spin (more loft is more backspin). My son loves the custom grinds -- I got the first one for him (It was worn after one season of high school golf); the second is on him.

[handlez42]

well then sir my apologies and i'll take your advice to heart. in short, non taken =)

i started golfing a year ago so i havent bothered to care about checking my handicap any particular proper way. i just see it as making the game of golf more confusing, which isnt necessary haha.

i guess now my only worry would have to be durability. I know companies are starting to avoid the carbon steel wedge (i think?) because not all tour players can get a new set of wedges for each tournament. Also that harder material wedges are possibilities due to the grooves rule, which has lead to pretty much every kind of ball known to man, game-improvement to tour caliber, has been built to be softer. Ball no longer inflicts itself on the wedge grooves where as the wedge inflict themselves onto the ball. which really isnt that big of a difference. {say an old "top rock" on a forged Pwedge vs. a bridgestone E6 (or any softer ball) on a casted Pwedge.}

im in northern PA where we get maybe 6 good months of golf weather if were lucky. im sure buying a wedge like the 1018 would be worth it but i do tend to go to the local dome range quite often so it wouldnt change much. do you suggest buying a solid wedge for practice or even keeping the existing wedge?

what exactly is the difference between the forged and the milled? ive known of forging vs. casting. but i also thought CNC milling was just one process on making grooves? is CNC simply just shaving a soft metal vs. shaping/forging it?

[Mr. Desmond]

  handlez42 said:

Originally Posted by handlez42

im in northern PA where we get maybe 6 good months of golf weather if were lucky. im sure buying a wedge like the 1018 would be worth it but i do tend to go to the local dome range quite often so it wouldnt change much. do you suggest buying a solid wedge for practice or even keeping the existing wedge?

what exactly is the difference between the forged and the milled? ive known of forging vs. casting. but i also thought CNC milling was just one process on making grooves? is CNC simply just shaving a soft metal vs. shaping/forging it?

I still think you want a urethane ball for spin -- especially with the conforming wedges that have reduced spin. But it depends on what you want your ball to do -- roll out or spin, or predictable rollout....

I don't like a 1018 wedge pounding against mats (soft forgings bend) - so if the dome has a mat surface, concentrate on your full swing, not the wedge swing. Forging is the manufacturing process of aligning the grains of steel to form a club head. A CNC mill can be used to computer mill grooves or flatten the face more precisely (perfectly flat), among other things....

Grooves are also pressed into the club head rather than milled. I believe Scratch 1018 and Tour are pressed grooves, whereas the 8620 are milled -- but I haven't kept up with Scratch, so you might ask them.

And yes, for practice on mats, I'd keep the existing wedge or get a $50 wedge with a similar grind as the one you purchase.

[handlez42]

are the 8620 wedges not as soft?