If no advantage was gained and the rule breach was unintentional, why enforce the rule?

[Pete]

I know all the rules in question here but just wanted to know your thoughts on this rule generally.

In a club comp, my competitors 9 year old son who was caddying for his dad, was tending the flag on one of my putts. He totally forgot to remove the flagstick from the hole and my ball trickled into the hole.

I know it is my 2 stroke penalty but would any of you called that penalty if it was your caddy who forgot? Also, would you want other players in the comp penalised for the same  thing or are you like me in that if no advantage was gained and the breach was unintentional, then enforcing the rule is pointless.

[luu5]

Who is to say, that something was not intentional or did not give advantage?

[Pete]

Common sense?

[RFetters]

I would think if a 9 year old was even on the course, the competition wasnt all that important.  In casual competition or even minor tournaments, there are occasions where certain rules arent followed to the letter.

In this case, I would not sign the scorecard, explain the situation to the club pro, and allow him to make the final decision, and be prepared to be assessed a 2 stroke penalty.

[Double Bogey]

Originally Posted by RFetters

I would think if a 9 year old was even on the course, the competition wasnt all that important.  In casual competition or even minor tournaments, there are occasions where certain rules arent followed to the letter.

In this case, I would not sign the scorecard, explain the situation to the club pro, and allow him to make the final decision, and be prepared to be assessed a 2 stroke penalty.

+1

[ghalfaire]

I guess some things are more important than whether the rule caused harm or not.  The first question was "who is to say?"is the correct one.  What if someone following this foursome did the same thing and ended up winning the tournament?  Would that be OK with the OP?  Just a a last question, what is the harm for the 9 year old to learn that it is OK to break the rules as long as I don't think there is any real harm done in doing so?

[Pete]

Some great points made thanks

Would you call the penalty on an opponent?

I guess I'm struggling to see how rules applications like this help to differentiate who played better on the day?

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Pete

Some great points made thanks

Would you call the penalty on an opponent?

I guess I'm struggling to see how rules applications like this help to differentiate who played better on the day?

First of all, it isn't who played better, it's who played better following the rules.  If you have a 9 year old caddying, then he still needs to know what he's doing if he is going to participate in that capacity.  I don't blame the boy, as it's unreasonable to expect the typical kid that age to know the rules.  But if there is any doubt, then he shouldn't be attending the flagstick in the first place.  If he is allowed to do so, then his player is responsibility for any penalties the boy incurs.  The rules don't distinguish qualifications by age, nor do they allow for waiving a rule due to ignorance.

Take the penalty with a smile and help the youngster learn how to play the game correctly.

[zeg]

I don't feel you're under a moral obligation to follow every rule just because you're hitting a golf ball with a golf club on a golf course.  If you want to play loosely and only bother with penalties when they're judged significant, that's fine.  In match play or when everyone involved in a "competition" is in the same group, it can work --- you just have a discussion and decide how to apply the rules in a way that everyone's happy with.

As soon as it's bigger than this, though, I think it's essential that the rules be clearly defined and uniformly applied.  (They don't have to be the Rules of Golf necessarily, but realistically probably should be, possibly with custom modifications if the group sees the need.)  It's not practical to let every affected party judge the case because only a few of them were there to observe the facts.  While there are rules that can be ambiguous or difficult to apply, this isn't one of them.

So I'm on board with the above.  Chalk it up as a learning experience, let the kid know he made an error, but don't make a big deal out of it.  He'll learn something.  If you do want to do something, the above suggestion to discuss with the organizers/rules committee is a good one.  That way a single, unbiased party can make the call, rather than individual groups applying the rules in a varied manner.

[Pete]

Great points everyone. Thanks