Handicap question

[Ernest Jones]

Hi all. This year I plan to track all my FIR, GIR and putts as I've come to understand that a big piece of improvement is knowing where you're at to begin with. I also want to establish my handicap for the same reasons however, with family and work obligations I rarely get the chance to play more than 9 holes at a time. What is the procedure for establishing a handicap with 9 hole rounds?

In the past I would just double my 9 hole score and leave it at that but in reality some people fade (too many beers?) on the back nine and post a worse score and some people get more in the groove on the back nine and post a better score so I'm guessing that just doubling my 9 hole score is probably not very accurate. I don't need an "official" handicap as I am miles away from being ready to compete in a tournament setting but I'd like to have a reasonably accurate idea of what my handicap is.

Thanks in advance...

[iacas]

You combine consecutive nine-hole rounds.

Grab Scorecard if you'd like, it'll do these calculations for you and is still a great way to track stats.

[Ernest Jones]

Thanks.

Congrats on the 5 keys launch, sounds awesome. Hopefully there will be some Canadian coaches! Can't even find an SnT coach here, at least nowhere near Montreal.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

In the past I would just double my 9 hole score and leave it at that but in reality some people fade (too many beers?) on the back nine and post a worse score and some people get more in the groove on the back nine and post a better score so I'm guessing that just doubling my 9 hole score is probably not very accurate...

In addition to the reasons you cite, and perhaps more importantly, the front and back 9s usually have different slopes and ratings. I mention this because when you combine 9 hole scores, you'll need to know the slope and rating for each 9 you played, and you can't determine that from the slope and rating of the full 18. (I.e., technically you can't just use the same slope and halve the rating of the full course, even though that would probably give you a fairly close approximation.)

You'll probably have to ask someone at the course to find out the slope and rating numbers are for each 9.

[meenman]

You can usually post a 9 hole round specifying front or back , GHIN will automatically combine them. I have a 9 hole round sitting in the computer that may never get paired up.

[Shorty]

I really don't see the point in doing this.

Fact is, if you post a 9 hole score, 9 other holes are being made up.

A round of golf is 18 holes, and a handicap relates to 18 holes of golf.

What you propose to do doesn't account for nerves kicking on the last few holes when you're playing well and the odd blow out hole.

Not saying that software won't calculate it, but it's not going to be reflective of proper rounds.

It might be different if someone plays 18 holes 95% of the time.

I can't tell you how many times I've ruined a round on the last 2 or three holes.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by meenman

You can usually post a 9 hole round specifying front or back , GHIN will automatically combine them. I have a 9 hole round sitting in the computer that may never get paired up.

True, but I didn't suggest that because the OP doesn't have an official handicap, he's calculating it on his own -  hence he's not entering anything in the computer at the course.

Originally Posted by Shorty

I really don't see the point in doing this.

Fact is, if you post a 9 hole score, 9 other holes are being made up.

A round of golf is 18 holes, and a handicap relates to 18 holes of golf.

What you propose to do doesn't account for nerves kicking on the last few holes when you're playing well and the odd blow out hole.

Not saying that software won't calculate it, but it's not going to be reflective of proper rounds.

It might be different if someone plays 18 holes 95% of the time.

I can't tell you how many times I've ruined a round on the last 2 or three holes.

The other 9 holes aren't being made up, they're just played at a later time.

My worst blowups in a given 18 hole round are just as likely to be on the first 9 as they are on the second 9. There's no statistical evidence in my rounds for the front 9 scores being better than the back.

The RCGA (applicable to the OP) and USGA allow (in fact require) the posting of 9 hole rounds, so that's what the OP should do.

Besides, it doesn't matter - the OP has no official handicap and is simply trying to gauge his improvement.  That is exactly what he will be doing - gauging his handicap improvement on 9-hole rounds. It just happens to also be an acceptable (according to the RCGA and USGA) method of gauging 18-hole improvement.

[szaino]

When you say "I don't need an "official" handicap" then do whatever you want, because it won't be a real handicap as measured by the USGA.

Official handicaps are cheap. The procedure when you complete just a 9 hole round, is this gets input as a 9 hole score for whatever course you are on. The PRO will eventually match up 9 hole scores front and back and this will go in as an 18 hole score and coded as a "combined" 18 hole score. This will then be used in the handicap formula.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by szaino

When you say "I don't need an "official" handicap" then do whatever you want, because it won't be a real handicap as measured by the USGA.

That's just flat out incorrect. There's no reason why you can't use the same formula as the USGA uses to get what your handicap *would* be if it was official.

Originally Posted by szaino

Official handicaps are cheap. The procedure when you complete just a 9 hole round, is this gets input as a 9 hole score for whatever course you are on. The PRO will eventually match up 9 hole scores front and back and this will go in as an 18 hole score and coded as a "combined" 18 hole score. This will then be used in the handicap formula.

Yes, they're cheap. Most clubs charge $30-40 a year. But there's no reason to pay that if you don't intend to enter any tournaments and just want to keep track of your progress.

(And btw, not sure what you mean by the "PRO", but when you have an "official" handicap the computer system matches up 9 hole scores - it's not usually done by a person.  Certainly not the pro at a given golf course since your 9-hole rounds might be played at different ones.)

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by szaino

When you say "I don't need an "official" handicap" then do whatever you want, because it won't be a real handicap as measured by the USGA.

"do whatever you want" isn't terribly helpful...

Originally Posted by Shorty

I really don't see the point in doing this.

Fact is, if you post a 9 hole score, 9 other holes are being made up.

A round of golf is 18 holes, and a handicap relates to 18 holes of golf.

What you propose to do doesn't account for nerves kicking on the last few holes when you're playing well and the odd blow out hole.

Not saying that software won't calculate it, but it's not going to be reflective of proper rounds.

It might be different if someone plays 18 holes 95% of the time.

I can't tell you how many times I've ruined a round on the last 2 or three holes.

Funny, when I posted this I was wondering how long it would be before Shorty jumped on it with both feet.

Let me reiterate: the purpose of this is to track my progress as a RECREATIONAL golfer. Not for tournaments, not for bragging rights, not for ruining Shorty's day...Just a way to know where I am at relative to the courses I play and a part of the process of improving.

It if makes you feel better, or more secure in some strange way, we can call it Jason's approximate average scoring potential instead of handicap..

I also specifically stated in my original post that I was well aware of the fact that just doubling my 9 hole score is not a very accurate tally for the same reasons you stated in your reply and I agree that combining 2 rounds of 9 is probably not very accurate either which is why I stressed that it would be an unofficial handicap.

I'm sure some one will eventually get around to telling me that I'm not playing "golf" if it's only 9 holes.

[Ernest Jones]

End rant.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Funny, when I posted this I was wondering how long it would be before Shorty jumped on it with both feet.

Let me reiterate: the purpose of this is to track my progress as a RECREATIONAL golfer. Not for tournaments, not for bragging rights, not for ruining Shorty's day...Just a way to know where I am at relative to the courses I play and a part of the process of improving.

A pretty extreme reaction, no? I'm mereley saying that there's a difference between playing a full round of golf and playing 9 holes. For a range of reasons.

If you think you need a "handicap" to gauge your improvent, then go ahead and buy one, or whatever it is the DIY handicappers over there do.

I would think that if I was only playing 9 holes at a time and my scores were 53,52,47,43,48,49,42,43,43,47,42,41,44,41,42,43 -  I'd have a fair idea of how I was progressing, and I'd call it an improvement.
I 'd work out myself which courses were easier or harder and equate a 48 here with 45 there, for instance.

But hey, that's only me.

My thought is that recreational golfers should be scoring properly and not worrying too much about a quasi handicap that doesn't reflect their abilities.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Funny, when I posted this I was wondering how long it would be before Shorty jumped on it with both feet.

Let me reiterate: the purpose of this is to track my progress as a RECREATIONAL golfer. Not for tournaments, not for bragging rights, not for ruining Shorty's day...Just a way to know where I am at relative to the courses I play and a part of the process of improving.

A pretty extreme reaction, no? I'm mereley saying that there's a difference between playing a full round of golf and playing 9 holes. For a range of reasons.

If you think you need a "handicap" to gauge your improvent, then go ahead and buy one, or whatever it is the DIY handicappers over there do.

I would think that if I was only playing 9 holes at a time and my scores were 53,52,47,43,48,49,42,43,43,47,42,41,44,41,42,43 -  I'd have a fair idea of how I was progressing, and I'd call it an improvement.

I 'd work out myself which courses were easier or harder and equate a 48 here with 45 there, for instance.

But hey, that's only me.

My thought is that recreational golfers should be scoring properly and not worrying too much about a quasi handicap that doesn't reflect their abilities.

Shorty, you are either:

1) Completely misunderstanding the issue.

2) Understanding the issue and are wrong about it (or at least giving an opinion no one else agrees with).

3) Stirring up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble.

Using 9-hole scores is just as valid a way of keeping your handicap as using 18-hole scores. If your argument is that even a handicap based on 18-hole scores is useless for gauging improvement, then that's an opinion very few people share.

It's not a quasi-handicap.

There's no reason to "buy" one since it can be done on one's own.

[Beachcomber]

Combine your 9 holes scores using the slope and ratings that are found on the score card for those 9's.  Most online handicap systems will do this for you.  I just joined the SCGA and their online system will do this automatically.  It's nice because there are times after work where you can only squeeze 9 holes in, and you can still use it to help generate your handicap.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Combine your 9 holes scores using the slope and ratings that are found on the score card for those 9's.  Most online handicap systems will do this for you.  I just joined the SCGA and their online system will do this automatically.  It's nice because there are times after work where you can only squeeze 9 holes in, and you can still use it to help generate your handicap.

Yep, but other than a course I play with 3 nines, I don't think I've ever seen the 9-hole slope and ratings on the scorecards at any course I've played (maybe it's a regional thing) - so if they're not on the scorecard, you can ask someone in the pro shop. (Or they're also often in the computer where you enter scores in the pro shop - obviously you're not entering scores in that computer since you don't have a member number, but you still may be able to get to the screen with the slopes/ratings.)

[zeg]

Rather than blustering about this on the net, someone who has played mostly 18 hole rounds should compute their handicap indexes three ways. First, using the standard method with all the 18 hole rounds (i.e., the number you probably already know). Then re-calculate using only the front-9 scores, combined using the rules for 9-hole scores, and then again using only the back-9 scores. There may be a difference, but I don't think it's going to be as big as people are guessing.

The course probably knows the individual hole ratings, and some courses can be found here: http://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/ (though it seems to be incomplete, at least for the courses I've looked up). You could also perhaps apply the guidelines in the handicap manual for adjusting slope/rating for unrated tees to estimate the 9-hole handicaps.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by zeg

Rather than blustering about this on the net, someone who has played mostly 18 hole rounds should compute their handicap indexes three ways. First, using the standard method with all the 18 hole rounds (i.e., the number you probably already know). Then re-calculate using only the front-9 scores, combined using the rules for 9-hole scores, and then again using only the back-9 scores. There may be a difference, but I don't think it's going to be as big as people are guessing.

The course probably knows the individual hole ratings, and some courses can be found here: http://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/ (though it seems to be incomplete, at least for the courses I've looked up). You could also perhaps apply the guidelines in the handicap manual for adjusting slope/rating for unrated tees to estimate the 9-hole handicaps.

That's a great site you posted... I hadn't seen that before... it's kind of cool too because it gives you the bogey rating which I haven't seen before.

[szaino]

I thought that I was being helpful.

A USGA golf handicap is a very specific set of rules and calculations, which are available at the USGA website, and can be set up on an excel spreadsheet if you want to do it yourself. Or go to a free on line calculator.

In my eyes there really is no in between. That is why I say do whatever you want. If you don't want to go through the actual calculations and rules for an actual "handicap", then just keep track of your average 9 hole scores as a gauge for how you are doing. You will ultimately find that anything short of an actual USGA  "handicap" calculation will only raise more and more questions as to whatever hybrid average it is that you are coming up with.

Your original question here regarding 9 hole scores is totally covered in the USGA handicapping system.