The expensive act of changing flex

[MiniBlueDragon]

Hi folks,

I've recently found myself the unfortunate (fortunate from a swing perspective) situation where my required flex has jumped up from Regular to Stiff. I've pencilled a rough process for the next few months/year of swapping all my gear over but I'd like some input from people who have had to do likewise. What order did you do everything? What worked and what didn't?

My plan:

- Replace irons - DONE

- Replace wedges (still toying with this one as wedges rarely require a full speed swing)

- Replace 3W

- Replace 3H

- Replace Driver

The reason for putting 3W first is it's my normal 'go to' tee club because I can't hit my driver well (flex issue probably?), then I use my 3H more than the driver too for second shots where the 3W would go too far so that's next followed by the boomstick.

Reckon it's worth getting a driver fitting and prioritising that over the 3W/3H as hopefully I'll be hitting it better with the right flex or stick to the (expensive) plan? I'll be part-exchanging all my current gear so that should offset around 20% of the price I hope.

[moparman426]

Re-shaft them instead?  You are allowed to do that, you know.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by moparman426

Re-shaft them instead?  You are allowed to do that, you know.

See? This is why I like posting my thoughts on forums!

I was told by a guy at my club that it'd cost me more to re-shaft them than to buy new clubs so I immediately threw the idea of re-shafting out of the window.

I've always liked them so re-shafting is definitely a possibility. I'll have to try out some clubs first or pay for a fitting to get an idea on the best type of shaft for me but definitely possible if it's not going to be extortionate to do.

[Shindig]

Here's my answer, but I'm not convinced I did this correctly (although it does match the same order you're doing). Note that I've been rather un-athletic my entire life, although golf has motivated me to work on all aspects of being better physically. The details of this are better for the exercise topics. When I first broke 90 and then went to get fitted for my first set of OEM irons (my beloved Mizunos), I was squarely in regular flex (and a bit too proud to go with light-weight steel or graphite). Said irons were acquired May 2008. About a year and a half ago, I was at a demo day and asked the Mizuno representative if I could do a shaft fitting, as I was thinking of changing out the R300s in my Mizuno irons. The suggested list included KBS Tour Stiff, soft stepped (the other two were a TT Dynalite stiff, soft stepped, and a Nippon shaft in standard stiff). I was so proud: my gym time had paid off with increased swing speed (I had seen greater distance, followed by wider shot dispersion which I attributed to the shafts possibly being too weak). I had a "demo" 6-iron that matched my set, and had it re-shafted that way. After a few days of hitting the two at the range side-by-side, I used it as a 14th club (at the time, I carried only 13) and hit it whenever I would've otherwise hit a 6-iron. Based on the performance, I decided to re-shaft the rest of my irons this way (retaining the original 6-iron from my set in case I need to reshaft in the future). I also ended up buying new wedges: PW and GW in Nike VR (with the same KBS shaft) and a Nike SV sand wedge. That PW is one of my favorite clubs I've ever owned, and at what was then my home course, I was always planning around hitting it into every par-5 (third shot, of course). This didn't cost me much out of pocket, as I had scrip from playing well in club tournaments that could be spent at the local golf shop. But for a while, I was using regular flex in the woods and hybrids, I guess under some impression that regular flex would go farther than stiff flex, and I should accept the shot dispersion that comes with it (I no longer stand by that reasoning). But a friend convinced me to learn about club building, and I looked at some component clubs, and he helped me get a 3-wood together with a stiff shaft. I actually rather like that club: the first 3-wood I've felt really comfortable with (maybe because it's half an inch under for length, same as my irons?). I'm hitting a milestone in my life soon, and I'm probably going to assemble some hybrids, a 5-wood, and a driver in stiff flex. I figure I should get my swing speed measured, and since I haven't played a round since August, check into that a bit before adding to the bag.

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I was told by a guy at my club that it'd cost me more to re-shaft them than to buy new clubs

Unless you are getting bargain basement prices on brand new clubs, re-shafting has always been the cheaper option.  You don't need to spend $399 on a driver shaft to get a nice one, either.  I have picked up a few nice used shafts from ebay, and new ones from places like Golfworks, etc for super cheap.  I do all my own re-shafting, takes less than ten minutes per club if I am not being distracted.  You can even buy a half decent graphite shaft extractor for $80, and do it yourself as well.  A shop would be around $10-15 per club, but you could save by asking to reuse your grip, if it's still good.

[MiniBlueDragon]

I think I'd rather pay an expert than take a chance myself to be honest.

I just had a look and on average prices it'd cost me around £160 + £100 + £100 = £360 to replace all three clubs for new.

Grips are adequate for now and don't 'need' replacing so I think it'll just be a case of figuring out the correct shaft either through trial and error or through a fitting and then paying for a pull, re-fit and grip per club. As long as I can get all three done for less than £360 it's a saving as they clubs are in great condition still.

[moparman426]

If you are buying a shaft from a shop, ask if you can get a discount on the labor to swap them out.  If they do charge you a premium to change the shafts, ask them to be careful when pulling the old one, you might be able to sell it for a couple of $$ to recoup some of the install cost (if not all).  Some places can be accommodating.  I have even had one of the main retail stores here sell me supplies from their shop that they don't sell on the shelves, when I purchased my grips from them.  Some will wheel-n-deal, others....not so much.

[MiniBlueDragon]

I think I should be fine hopefully. I have one place where over the last two years I've used the range 1-2 times per week, I talk to the staff a lot and they know I get the majority of my gear there (including my new MP-59's and R12's) and my own club has a master clubmaker so I'll get a price off him too.

[Beachcomber]

Maybe it's just me... But I use my driver a ton off the tee as I'm pretty accurate with it.  When I do miss a fairway - it's still in play for the most part.  Even on some of the tightest holes where folks are using fairway woods... Or even irons... I'll use my driver many times as I just seem to really hit it well.  So I use the driver off the tee a lot.

Therefore my advice may have a little bias in it... But a driver requires a full swing.  Thus, I would recommend you place a higher value on replacing either the shaft in your driver, or get a new driver all together.  Plus - this gives you an excellent excuse to go out and try all the new drivers out! :D

[MiniBlueDragon]

heh I like your thinking!

I think the reason I rarely use the driver is simply because I've not spent any real amount of time getting used to hitting it. The knock-on to lack of practice with it is that when I use it I can't hit it properly.

I started out playing 2 year ago or so and only used irons for 6 months or so before I brought a hybrid for more distance off the tee. Then 6 more months or so I decided to get a 3W for more tee distance again. I then spent ages with people telling me that drivers are impossible to hit and I should avoid getting one but 6 months or so ago I bit the bullet and bought one. I've never had a driver lesson and always been concentrating on my iron play so whenever I've taken it out to use it I've hit a bad shot.

I'm reasonably sure if I dedicate some practice time to it that I'll be able to hit it well and now my irons are sharper I'm more likely to work on my tee shots more so it's definitely on the "to do" list to get re-shafted. If I can figure out the correct shaft for my swing I'll likely get all three re-shafted at the same time anyway as it seems to be much cheaper than I expected for 'normal' after market shafts (not Fuburakimakisushicake shafts of doom)

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

heh I like your thinking!

I think the reason I rarely use the driver is simply because I've not spent any real amount of time getting used to hitting it. The knock-on to lack of practice with it is that when I use it I can't hit it properly.

I started out playing 2 year ago or so and only used irons for 6 months or so before I brought a hybrid for more distance off the tee. Then 6 more months or so I decided to get a 3W for more tee distance again. I then spent ages with people telling me that drivers are impossible to hit and I should avoid getting one but 6 months or so ago I bit the bullet and bought one. I've never had a driver lesson and always been concentrating on my iron play so whenever I've taken it out to use it I've hit a bad shot.

I'm reasonably sure if I dedicate some practice time to it that I'll be able to hit it well and now my irons are sharper I'm more likely to work on my tee shots more so it's definitely on the "to do" list to get re-shafted. If I can figure out the correct shaft for my swing I'll likely get all three re-shafted at the same time anyway as it seems to be much cheaper than I expected for 'normal' after market shafts (not Fuburakimakisushicake shafts of doom)

All the more reason to learn how to hit a driver... To prove the naysayers wrong!

Seriously though... The new drivers are easy to hit IMO.  The heads are so big, and create a dwarf like golf ball effect at address.  I feel like I can swing as hard as I want, and still hit a good ball... As it's hard to miss.  My misses with the driver are typically towards the heel or high off the face - and the ball still soars goes pretty straight.

Also, as you get a stiffer golf shaft, I think you'll notice your dispersion will be tighter too as the club won't be as whippy.  If your swing speed is getting faster, it's really hard to keep that club head on the correct path...  So getting a stiffer shaft will definitely help.

What is your swing speed with your driver?  I'm 98 to 102mph comfortably... I can swing faster, but would be out of my comfort zone with regard to control.

[MiniBlueDragon]

I don't actually know my actual driver SS to be fair. My iron fitting was 84mph on average and from what most people say (on the internet where everything is twice the amount!) those who hit a 6i at 84mph iron swing hit their driver at around 105-110. I think it was rustyredcab who posted a difference of 82% from 6i to driver speed for tour pros so that clocks me at:

100% - 82% = 18%

84mph * 1.18 = 99.12mph

So anywhere between 99 and 110 based on all the above.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Had a free fitting this morning. My driver and 3W swing speed are pretty much in line with what RRC said - Average ~84mph 6 iron speed and ~101mph driver speed or more or less a 20% increase.

Hitting my own driver with reg flex against the same club with same shaft in stiff flex increased my distance by 10-15 yards up to around the 240 mark, tightened my dispersion width and narrowed my dispersion length from ~30 yards to ~10 yards. No decision to be made really. Nice low RPMs too!

Hitting my own 3W with reg flex against the same with stiff gave me about 2 yards more distance and tightened the dispersion but not by as much as the driver. I assume that's because my 3W swing is more consistent. My 3W distance was also only a few yards short of the driver at around 235 so I DEFINITELY need a driver lesson!

I also spoke to them about the cost difference between re-shafting or part exchanging. Because the clubs are in fantastic condition it would cost me £177 to part exchange all three clubs for brand new. To re-shaft them with stiff flex versions it would cost me £180 (£30 re-shafting fee and £50 per shaft). £3 cheaper to get new ones.

[Mr. Desmond]

We'll, I dropped down in flex and went with new clubs. I was not in love with what I had -- so I thought I'd save money over the long run if I went to a fitter and went with his recommendations, as long as I fell in golf-love with the new clubs.

I went irons, 6-PW, driver, 2 fairways ... did not need new wedges. I changed the shafts on the hybrids, but that was an error. It was a small headed hybrid and I am ending up with a 25 degree hybrid (RBZ) on the advice of the fitter.

The only way this methodology saves money is if I avoid clubs unless there is a real need. Hopefully, only Drivers and wedges will need replacing once every 2-3 years or so depending on grooves (wedges), technology and my swing (driver).

So I ended up with Driver, 5 and 7 wd, 5 hybrid, and 6-PW. I have a 13 club bag and could add a club to replace the 4i, but I'll wait and see what the 5 hybrid separation is from the 6i. It could be a tweener club between 4i and 5i. Then I could go with a 62 wedge for courses with postage stamp greens (which I already purchased, of course). Golf needs to be a hobby-sport and not an obsession!!!

Well, good luck!!

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Because the clubs are in fantastic condition it would cost me £177 to part exchange all three clubs for brand new. To re-shaft them with stiff flex versions it would cost me £180 (£30 re-shafting fee and £50 per shaft). £3 cheaper to get new ones.

If they are going to give you top dollar for your old clubs in trade, it's a no-brainer.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Had a free fitting this morning. My driver and 3W swing speed are pretty much in line with what RRC said - Average ~84mph 6 iron speed and ~101mph driver speed or more or less a 20% increase.

Hitting my own driver with reg flex against the same club with same shaft in stiff flex increased my distance by 10-15 yards up to around the 240 mark, tightened my dispersion width and narrowed my dispersion length from ~30 yards to ~10 yards. No decision to be made really. Nice low RPMs too!

Hitting my own 3W with reg flex against the same with stiff gave me about 2 yards more distance and tightened the dispersion but not by as much as the driver. I assume that's because my 3W swing is more consistent. My 3W distance was also only a few yards short of the driver at around 235 so I DEFINITELY need a driver lesson!

I also spoke to them about the cost difference between re-shafting or part exchanging. Because the clubs are in fantastic condition it would cost me £177 to part exchange all three clubs for brand new. To re-shaft them with stiff flex versions it would cost me £180 (£30 re-shafting fee and £50 per shaft). £3 cheaper to get new ones.

Nice info to share with the community!  Great to see you're getting some solid results by simply getting into the proper flex on your driver.

It's amazing how just changing a shaft can positively/negatively influence ones numbers.  That is why it is so important to go to a good fitter and get the right equipment in the first place.  Buying clubs off the rack is silly and so many people do it.

Good news out of all this... You're getting new clubs!! :D

[WUTiger]

When considering reshafting, you just have to sit down and compare costs, and value obtained .

Take irons, for example. If you have older irons that are pretty beat up, or have technical shortcomings, you probably want to get new irons. New irons don't have to be this year's latest model, you can get good deals on recent models.

If you can find a recent model that has received the first price cut, and it has the shaft you need, new irons can be the best way to go. If you buy new(er) clubs that are still in production, you can get the model from the factory - with the shaft you got fitted for - often with little or no upcharge.

If you have good-quality irons you like, a reshaft may be the way to go. It also depends on what shaft you want:

• Steel: Most of the TT Dynamic Gold/Dynalite shafts (individual) sell in the catalogs for $15 to $18. If you go with Project X Rifle Flighted, the 3-PW set of shafts runs around $295. The Tour Rifle Flighted set would sell for $190. KBS Tour C-taper cost $35 each.
• Graphite: Suprisingly, most of the graphite shafts made for irons come in at between $10 and $30 each. There are exceptions at the high end - Mitsubishi JavlnFX shafts sell for $45 each.

Steel reshafts start at about $10 labor per club. And, there's the cost of the grip and installation. Many shops charge a premium for graphite reshafts.

Note on saving grips: I went to a club fitting school recently, and some golf shop employees said their stores do not save grips. They say it's too much hassle.

[Clambake]

MBD, I think you should forget about moving into a new set of clubs, reshafting, or any of these economical options.    Frankly, you have a moral obligation to society to make the changes to a properly fit set of clubs all due speed.   Delaying your spending to change out your set one club or group of clubs at a time will have serious consequences:

• Your delay in purchasing everything now means your local golf retailer will not be getting some of the money they were forecasting, so their business will be hurt.   They'll probably have to lay off some staff, so you'll be contributing to unemployment in the UK.
• Since your golf shop has laid off staff, when you do go back later to get clubs they won't have the trained staff anymore, and you'll be fit for your new club by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.    Your delay means you won't get the right clubs for you, and you will ultimately be very dissatisfied with your purchase.   Your disappointment may even make you give up the game, and you'll simply wander around muttering expletives the game of golf, generally annoying everyone you meet.
• Delaying your purchase also means the manufacturer won't be getting your order earlier and they're also building that into their forecast, so they also will be impacted.   They will probably have to lay off some manufacturing workers.    Since these jobs are likely in China, this means that there will be a larger supply of unemployed workers in China, and from simple supply and demand of labor then the manufacturing wages in that region will not go up, and may even go down.
• Driving the Chinese labor pricing down means that offshoring manufacturing to China becomes even more attractive to foreign companies trying to reduce their labor rates.   This will help increase the flow of manufacturing jobs from the developed countries in Europe and North America, reducing in even more unemployment domestically.
• This greater flow of manufacturing jobs to China will even further upset the global trade balance, impacting currency rates and hurting interest rates.
• The manufacturers also won't have the additional monies to allocate for future R&D.;    Laying off R&D; means they'll be laying off engineers and metallurgists.    These are higher salaried positions, and the leverage effect in the economy will be significant.    Local businesses such as restaurants, cleaners, department stores, etc. will all feel the effect of the loss of these well-paying jobs.     Some will probably have to close their doors as a result.
• All these laid off workers will be hard pressed to find new jobs because of the decline you've started, and to simply feed their families they will be forced to turn to a life of crime.    Normal husbands and dads will steal cars that are smuggled to Albania to sell to Russian mobsters.    Young mothers will be forced to turn to prostitution.   Some parents may even have to turn out their own kids into prostitution, or sell them into slavery.

As you can see, your selfish decision to move gradually into new clubs will have enormous impact on our global economy and way of life.   Please, please, please....for the sake of all humanity.....run as fast as you can to your local retailer and buy your new clubs NOW!!!!