Help W/Launch Monitor #'s and New Swing Laws

[bamadoc]

I have gotten my handicap down to a 4.  I have a golf shop next to where I work, so I get to hit balls on the launch monitor frequently.  My typical swing with a 7 iron is inside out 4 degrees with a closed face of 3-4 degrees.  Having read the new swing laws/physics, I am trying to rewire how I look at my misses.  I am a little confused because the new laws say that the club face angle is the main determinant, but my shot is telling me it is my swing path because the ball is starting at the target line and drawing 15 yards or so with my irons.  Maybe I need to look at my initial ball flight closer now that I know how to interpret it with the new laws.

I guess what I now need to do it feel like I am coming across the ball without trying to fight keeping my clubface closed.  I guess it is going to feel like a pull hook, but it should be fine if my face angle was actually right all along and it was just my path.  The only thing I am confused is how just a mere 4-6 degree inside out swing produces a 10-20 yard draw with a seven iron.  I just assumed it had to be face angle primarily.

I am sure I have confused most of you, but I just wanted advice.  Thanks.  Another thing is produce a fair amount of clubhead speed/driver 115mph and 90% seven iron is 85mph as I don't try to kill my irons.  The thing is my seven iron is going way too far right now with this bigger draw.  My average is 170ish, but it will get up to 185 way too often.  I will say that out of 50 7 irons I hit yesterday 49 were at or left of the pin.  I would say 90% fell 10-20 yards left.  I really feel like they are starting initially at the pin, but I will look today to really see this as I know this will be crucial to tweaking my swing.  Any thoughts, tips, or corrections are welcomed.

[Beachcomber]

A few thoughts... And I'll keep it short as I'm on my iPad. 1.) spin #'s will make the ball curve more. 2.) check your shafts... They may not suit your swing speed / tempo. 3.) tweaking your grip is the easiest way to modify ball flight IMO... Try weakening your grip. 4.) take some video of your swing and post it in the my swing thread so users can take a look and provide more sound advice that is pertinent to your swing.

[bamadoc]

Thanks for the tips.  I was using a demo 7i instead of my seven iron.  I will hit today with my seven iron.  The demo felt fine, but you know how that goes.  I will try getting a video up sometime.  Thanks for the tips.

[bamadoc]

Also, I had a question about the launch monitor readings.  Say I swing inside out 4 degrees with a 3 degree closed club face.  That three degrees is closed relative to a straight swing path, correct?  Or is it closed 3 degrees from my inside out path?

[saevel25]

Quote:

My typical swing with a 7 iron is inside out 4 degrees with a closed face of 3-4 degrees.  Having read the new swing laws/physics, I am trying to rewire how I look at my misses.  I am a little confused because the new laws say that the club face angle is the main determinant, but my shot is telling me it is my swing path because the ball is starting at the target line and drawing 15 yards or so with my irons.  Maybe I need to look at my initial ball flight closer now that I know how to interpret it with the new laws.

Question, is your target line straight, square to your body. If so then it sounds good to me..

4 degrees inside to out - 3-4 degrees closed, your clubface should be pointing near down the target line. Having a closed face to the swing plane, your looking at a pretty big draw. I would just open your clubface about 2 degrees..

[bamadoc]

Wow! I just got back from working on the launch monitor.  I am amazed at how the new swing concepts changed the way I tweaked my swing.  As I said, my old swing was a inside/out 4degrees with around a 4 degree closed face.  Now I see that my 4degree face was square to target line.  All I did was change my setup.  I was aiming 10 yards right.  Doing this instantly cured my inside out 4 degrees to dead straight or 1 degree from the inside.  I quickly went from 15-25 yard draws to 3 yard draws consistently.  It also got my ball flight and distance more in the 170 range.  Before I would come in with the shut face and inside out causing me to deloft it and hit the 7iron 185plus.

I have played golf for a long time, and I am shocked I am just now discovering this.  I have been trying to mess around with opening my club face more thinking that was the problem.  I see why that wasn't really working.  Another thing I was amazed at is how much draw I put on a ball with just 1 degree inside/out swing path and one degree closed face. I assume it is just due to higher swing speed, but I was till surprised that a near perfect swing started directly at target and drew 12 yards.

Now that I know this should I just keep my clubhead square for all shots and just change stance to produce fade or draw?  Just curious as the old way would have me change the club face angle along with stance.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by bamadoc

Also, I had a question about the launch monitor readings.  Say I swing inside out 4 degrees with a 3 degree closed club face.  That three degrees is closed relative to a straight swing path, correct?  Or is it closed 3 degrees from my inside out path?

If the ball was starting relatively straight I would say the face was closed to the PATH rather than to the target.  Do you know what launch monitor it was?  Every one is a little different.

In terms of your question, path 4* out with a face 3-4* aimed left of the target would be a pull hook.  Incorrect ball flight laws would tell you to swing MORE out to start the ball more to the right.  But would only produce more hook curve.

Originally Posted by bamadoc

Now that I know this should I just keep my clubhead square for all shots and just change stance to produce fade or draw?  Just curious as the old way would have me change the club face angle along with stance.

Face aimed left for a cut and right for a draw.  Changing the stance will help change the path.  But we don't want a square clubface, aimed at the target.  Because then the ball would start at the hole and curve away from the hole

[bamadoc]

Thanks, mvvac.  I agree.  I as four degrees in to out with the club face square to target but still closed to swing path.  So, my fall would start right at flag and draw 10-30 yards.  Fixing my swing path to more straight by changing my body alignment from 10 yards right to parallel to target line didn't only fix my swing path but also changed my club face angle to going from 4 deg shut to swing path to being dead square without really altering anything other than body alignment.  Sorry if that was confusing.

As far a drawing/fading, I was talking about setting up 10 yards left for fade and keeping face the square to setup and just counting on the outside in swing to fade the ball.  Sorry if I was unclear.  I would definitely not put the clubface square to the flag as I would just start at flag and peel away.

I was just wondering what the best way or most reliable way to go about fading and drawing now that my thinking has been changed due to new swing rules I have just discovered.  Thanks and feel free to correct me if I was incorrect in any of my thinking.  Thanks.

[bamadoc]

Just got back from hitting again.  For those curious, the monitor is a Golf Acheiver.  I wasn't quite as good this afternoon with the tweaks.  80% of my shots were 1-4 degrees inside out, but my club face was consistently 5 degrees shut.  I just can't keep it open.  I will go hit some balls on the range to get it figured out.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by bamadoc

Just got back from hitting again.  For those curious, the monitor is a Golf Acheiver.

Golf Achiever seems to use laser to capture the data. I do not know if it can see the real face angle or is it derived based on swing path and ball flight, like TM and FS does. So if it does not see the face, I hope the algorithms support the "new" ball flight laws so you get the correct results.

Edit:

At least they claim they can measure the angle.

By combining GolfAchiever's measured impact variables - such as Ball Speed, Launch Angle, Azimuth, Swing Path, and Face Impact from the L-Frame - with GolfAchiever's Proprietary Algorithms, GolfAchiever is able to deliver the industry's most accurate Launch Parameters and Ball Flight Simulations.

[nobackswing]

Originally Posted by bamadoc

Wow! I just got back from working on the launch monitor.  I am amazed at how the new swing concepts changed the way I tweaked my swing.  As I said, my old swing was a inside/out 4degrees with around a 4 degree closed face.  Now I see that my 4degree face was square to target line.  All I did was change my setup.  I was aiming 10 yards right.  Doing this instantly cured my inside out 4 degrees to dead straight or 1 degree from the inside.  I quickly went from 15-25 yard draws to 3 yard draws consistently.  It also got my ball flight and distance more in the 170 range.  Before I would come in with the shut face and inside out causing me to deloft it and hit the 7iron 185plus.

I have played golf for a long time, and I am shocked I am just now discovering this.  I have been trying to mess around with opening my club face more thinking that was the problem.  I see why that wasn't really working.  Another thing I was amazed at is how much draw I put on a ball with just 1 degree inside/out swing path and one degree closed face. I assume it is just due to higher swing speed, but I was till surprised that a near perfect swing started directly at target and drew 12 yards.

Now that I know this should I just keep my clubhead square for all shots and just change stance to produce fade or draw?  Just curious as the old way would have me change the club face angle along with stance.

that's really cool, it sounds like you're a quick learner/applier of the "new" ball flight laws.  pretty nice how you changed your swing path just by opening up your stance.  what happens to your face numbers when you weaken your grip?

[bamadoc]

Well, I don't know how quick of a study I am as that afternoon wasn't quite as great.  I was able get my path a few degree closer to straight, but I just couldn't keep the face square.  It was 3-5degrees closed 90% of the time.  I was stubborn, but I am going to weaken the grip a little.  Then, I will see if I can flatten my wrist. Everyone says that usually causes more of a slice, but I think for me it is causing me to flip at the ball a little.  I don't know, but I will work on it at the range.  The thing is I am scoring best I have in a while playing the 10-20 yard draw/hook as it is long and consistent.

[nobackswing]

don't be afraid to go to a weaker grip on the range, just as an experiment.  it might give you some interesting feels and feedback.

if you can groove a swing plane and clubface that are more "zeroed out", my guess is that you will be more consistent.  you don't see pros hitting big benders (like the 10-20 yd draws you mention) very often.

[bamadoc]

I agree.  I play my best when I am drawing it 2-5 yards with irons.  Once I got my alignment right, I see that I have been cupping  my left wrist at address causing me to pretty much line up 4 degrees left of any body alignment I take.  Basically, I now feel like I am just hanging arms vertically making sure I don't put any downward pressure on my hands.  This is one of my main things I fight.

I shot 2 under on nine holes yesterday and only missed one green.   I also three putted a par five.  I actually putted well but nothing would fall.  It is really funny, but I had a lesson from a very good instructor when I was like 16 which was 15 years ago.  Many of the things he told me in that hour remain to this day great things to go back to.  Thanks for the help.