Best Single Tip for New Golfer at Age 22

[jhwmusic]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Original poster - while grip, stance, posture are important, as long as you don't do something extreme in the former, you should be okay.

Look down the line at a tour event, you'll see all sorts of setups - open, closed, strong, weak, etc...

Keep your eye on the prize - the low point of the golf swing is four inches ahead of the ball.

The low point of the golf swing is four inches ahead of the ball.

The low point of the golf swing is four inches ahead of the ball.

The low point of the golf swing is four inches ahead of the ball.

The low point of the golf swing is four inches ahead of the ball.

The low point of the golf swing is four inches ahead of the ball.

Keep your eye on the fruit!  Keep your eye on the fruit!  I would say this pretty much sums it up

[iacas]

Originally Posted by BugDude

Perhaps so...but they are fundamental elements of the game that get a lot of people in trouble.

If you say so. I disagree, and I'm not sure, but I think perhaps you didn't really click to read the two links in my post a few up above. I'm not going to rehash it all here. It's been talked about, though, so if you're interested why I feel so strongly about something that likely seems crazy to you, well, you can find out why I feel this way pretty easily. I won't bore the other long-time members saying it all again.

[bilinguru]

The linked article posted by iacas provides a quiz for instructors.  While it is definitely a good questionnaire for finding a good stack and tilt instructor (and I think stack and tilt is a good methodology) it is not the ONLY methodology out there.  I agree with BigDude that an instructor that doesn't focus on the four fundamentals  Grip, Alignment, Stance and Posture with a new student at the beginning is not a quality instructor.  If you are not set up correctly, you can't make a good swing.  Probably next, the instructor should explain ball flight laws and then, and only then, should they get into the mechanics of how you should take the club away, weight distribution/transference, tension/flexion, etc.  My two cents.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

The linked article posted by iacas provides a quiz for instructors.  While it is definitely a good questionnaire for finding a good stack and tilt instructor (and I think stack and tilt is a good methodology) it is not the ONLY methodology out there.

Precisely zero of the questions are specific to any single "methodology." None of 'em.

The rest of your comment has been discussed already, so again, not going to rehash it again.

[BugDude]

I read your link and I appreciate your perspective.  Lots of truth there for sure.  Hey, you're the one that's getting paid to teach people how to play golf not me.  I gave that up many years ago.  The only golf game I work on now is my own.  There are lots of different swing mechanics that are successful also.  Take Jim Furyk and Lee Trevino.

My point is I have stood on the range all day trying to get a massive slicer to hit it straight to achieve a sufficient distance to play the course by telling him to bring it back inside, don't come over the top, unhinge, uncoil, don't slide, stay behind the ball, etc. and if they have a super weak grip and a set-up where the ball is in the wrong position and open stance they will never change their ball flight no matter how long they beat their brains out.  They also naturally migrate back to their old bad habits with regard to grip and set up and don't even realize it.  Especially people who have played just long enough to develop bad habits and then decide they need lessons.  Sometimes it is easier to change the set-up and the grip to impact the desired result since those elements influence the swing.  For the most part, a person cannot see their own swing and tell what they are doing wrong or need to do to do it right.  They can see their grip and set-up.  My perspective is old school though.  New golf must be much like the new math...and I'm an old dog.  You know how that goes.

[Phil McGleno]

Most of the beginners I've taught miss the golf ball time after time, and I ain't never seen a grip alignment or posture or stance fix that. Does your alignment matter when you whiff half the time? I think not. If someone's holding onto the proper end of the golf club they've got a grip I can work with. The joy of golf is getting the ball in the air and after they mimic my grip and set up reasonably well (another minute), we move right on to the FUN STUFF OF HITTING THE BALL IN THE AIR.

It ain't rocket science. When they can consistently get the ball in the air we move onto the nuances, but that's the goal of any first lesson I give to someone: get them to fall in love with the game by hitting several shots in the air and reasonably far for them. Nobody ever fell in love with bowling by learning how to grip a bowling ball, how to stand, how many steps to take, or whatever. We like to see the pins fall down, who cares if you're rolling the ball granny style between your legs, just get to the fun part first.

GAPS, what a waste of time. If you spend more than five minutes on GAPS then you must REALLY KNOW that you're gonna LOVE golf, because I'd keep asking myself "when do I get to whack that little ball?" the whole darn time.

Lee Trevino did pretty well with a wide open stance. Tiger and Ben Hogan did pretty well with a super weak grip. If you were an instructor then perhaps you weren't a good one because I've never said "bring it back inside don't come over the top unhinge uncoil don't slide stay behind the ball" to a student.

If anything, those things are the best ways to hit slices.

Bringing the club back inside is gonna make someone re-route it to come outside. Don't come over the top? You've gotta do more than tell someone that. Unhinge, uncoil? So flip and spin out? Great. Don't slide? There's a big thread here about how good sliding is. Stay behind the ball? That's why people slice, because they're behind the ball and the clubhead is moving well left.

ERic's a stronger guy than me I guess.

Originally Posted by BugDude

My point is I have stood on the range all day trying to get a massive slicer to hit it straight to achieve a sufficient distance to play the course by telling him to bring it back inside, don't come over the top, unhinge, uncoil, don't slide, stay behind the ball, etc. and if they have a super weak grip and a set-up where the ball is in the wrong position and open stance they will never change their ball flight no matter how long they beat their brains out.  They also naturally migrate back to their old bad habits with regard to grip and set up and don't even realize it.  Especially people who have played just long enough to develop bad habits and then decide they need lessons.  Sometimes it is easier to change the set-up and the grip to impact the desired result since those elements influence the swing.  For the most part, a person cannot see their own swing and tell what they are doing wrong or need to do to do it right.  They can see their grip and set-up.  My perspective is old school though.  New golf must be much like the new math...and I'm an old dog.  You know how that goes.

[BugDude]

Most of the beginners I taught I showed them how to hit a golf ball in the air and fairly straight with distance in 2 minutes by putting their feet together and turning around themselves.  That was after I showed them how to hold a club and where to stand in relation to the ball.  Then we slowly moved their feet apart and began to slowly work on shifting weight.  None of it is rocket science, and there are forty-eleven styles and methods.  The only right one is the one that works for that individual.

[bilinguru]

This thread has gone from giving a guy a few tips to get him going, to debating the best teaching approaches.  Poor guy.  Yes, get lessons from a pro.  Which pro?  Depends on you.  Are you a cerebral kinda guy who likes to analyze things?  Are you a hands on kinda guy who doesn't want to hear a lot of theory but would rather get in there and hit the ball?  Do you like video, teaching aids or not?  There are so many guys out there.  Seems to me, you want a guy that can offer some proven results, i.e. satisfied students who can attest to improvement in their games in a reasonable amount of time.

[bilinguru]

Oh and to say GAPS is a waste of time is astounding to me.  In Ben Hogan's Five Lessons, a 127 page book including the summary and review, he spends the first 60 pages on it.  If you know more than Ben Hogan, I would love to take a lesson from you.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Oh and to say GAPS is a waste of time is astounding to me.  In Ben Hogan's Five Lessons, a 127 page book including the summary and review, he spends the first 60 pages on it.  If you know more than Ben Hogan, I would love to take a lesson from you.

It's a book. In a lesson, the instructor can demonstrate and fix your positions much faster than written text can explain and justify the purposes for the hand and ball positions. Hogan was very specific about the basics, while instructors can give you advanced techniques, feedback and guidelines on the full swing, and help with particular aspects of the game.

Why don't you just buy the 5$ book for use as a guide, and not spend 50$/hr to have an instructor lead you through golf kindergarten? There's much better uses for your instructor's time than going over the stuff the book can teach, and he can fix it if you go astray without spending more than 5 minutes. I doubt Erik knows more than Hogan, but he's a qualified and experienced instructor. At least he definitely knows more than you.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

It's a book. In a lesson, the instructor can demonstrate and fix your positions much faster than written text can explain and justify the purposes for the hand and ball positions. Hogan was very specific about the basics, while instructors can give you advanced techniques, feedback and guidelines on the full swing, and help with particular aspects of the game.

Why don't you just buy the 5$ book for use as a guide, and not spend 50$/hr to have an instructor lead you through golf kindergarten? There's much better uses for your instructor's time than going over the stuff the book can teach, and he can fix it if you go astray without spending more than 5 minutes. I doubt Erik knows more than Hogan, but he's a qualified and experienced instructor. At least he definitely knows more than you.

To be fair, I think he was responding to Phil, who said spending more than five minutes on GAPS was a waste of time (which is different than what bilinguru said). I happen to agree, but I think the specific "waste of time" quote was Phil's. :)

P.S. BugDude, every golfer is a feel golfer . I'm not getting into it here, but if you think I'm a "technical" instructor only then you don't know the first thing about how I teach.

[jhwmusic]

I don't think the kid is even paying attention anyway...he hasn't even responded once

[turtleback]

First and foremost you should learn to post in the proper place.  This place is for discussion of the various Tours.  Golf Talk is a better place, as is Instruction and Playing Tips.  You're new.  You'll learn.

[bilinguru]

Yeah, I was wondering when someone would mention that the thread was in the wrong place, but as it was the guys first post, I didn't say anything.

I guess the amount of time you spend on fundamentals would depend on how much the student knew when he started.

As far as anyone knowing more than me...hey, it looks as though many of the people who post here are knowledgeable and experienced golfers, that's why I joined the forum.  Thankfully, as ironically LuciusWooding pointed out elsewhere, there is a block option, so I can filter out the vitriol and sarcasm and get to the useful nuggets of info.

[BugDude]

I am indeed a feel golfer, but I never said anything about you being a technical instructor.  In my experience, I found it to be a more difficult challenge for me as a feel player to teach a person who was a more technical minded golfer.  That has nothing to do with you or any other instructor.  That was in reference to me and students I instructed.

And you're right, I do not know the first thing about how you teach, and I really don't care.  I have never witnessed you give instruction.  And what difference does it make.  It has been 10 years since I gave a lesson and much longer than that since I have had one and I doubt seriously I am going to do either one again in my lifetime.  We have a difference of opinion on approach or importance of certain elements of instruction and I doubt any amount of discussion is going to change that.  Its a free country, we don't have to agree.  You make your living doing this stuff, do what works for you and your students.

Apparently anyone who has an opinion other than yours is wrong.  Your website, your rules.  What is the point of having discussion if there is only one perspective that is viewed as correct?  Just ban the posting of instructional tips and direct all inquiries to you.

Originally Posted by iacas

To be fair, I think he was responding to Phil, who said spending more than five minutes on GAPS was a waste of time (which is different than what bilinguru said). I happen to agree, but I think the specific "waste of time" quote was Phil's. :)

P.S. BugDude, every golfer is a feel golfer. I'm not getting into it here, but if you think I'm a "technical" instructor only then you don't know the first thing about how I teach.

[chriskzoo]

LOL @ this thread - only golfers would start a discussion on stack & tilt when asked what is the "one best tip" for a new golfer.

Here is the best advice for a new golfer: Only hit the clubs in your bag that you have confidence in.  Every new golfer, not matter your skill level, will have one club that they love - be it a 7 iron, a 5 iron, 3 wood, etc.  You are not good enough at this point to be worrying about distance control, and if you love your 3 wood, 7 iron, and wedge, you  will play just as well hitting only those 3 clubs (plus putter) than you will carting around 14 clubs.

One you have complete confidence in those clubs, try adding one more, then one more, etc.

[bilinguru]

Quote:

LOL @ this thread - only golfers would start a discussion on stack & tilt when asked what is the "one best tip" for a new golfer.

Here is the best advice for a new golfer: Only hit the clubs in your bag that you have confidence in.  Every new golfer, not matter your skill level, will have one club that they love - be it a 7 iron, a 5 iron, 3 wood, etc.  You are not good enough at this point to be worrying about distance control, and if you love your 3 wood, 7 iron, and wedge, you  will play just as well hitting only those 3 clubs (plus putter) than you will carting around 14 clubs.

One you have complete confidence in those clubs, try adding one more, then one more, etc.

LOL @ this post.  I agree the discussion went off on a tangent, but it's funny you told the OP he wasn't good enough to worry about distance control or carry a full set of clubs.  He said he shoots 90.

[sean_miller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilinguru

Quote:

LOL @ this thread - only golfers would start a discussion on stack & tilt when asked what is the "one best tip" for a new golfer.

Here is the best advice for a new golfer: Only hit the clubs in your bag that you have confidence in.  Every new golfer, not matter your skill level, will have one club that they love - be it a 7 iron, a 5 iron, 3 wood, etc.  You are not good enough at this point to be worrying about distance control, and if you love your 3 wood, 7 iron, and wedge, you  will play just as well hitting only those 3 clubs (plus putter) than you will carting around 14 clubs.

One you have complete confidence in those clubs, try adding one more, then one more, etc.

LOL @ this post.  I agree the discussion went off on a tangent, but it's funny you told the OP he wasn't good enough to worry about distance control or carry a full set of clubs.  He said he shoots 90.

Yet here he is soliciting strangers on the internet for a single magical tip that will transform his game. It's possible that this tip might help.

To add my own personal anecdote, like a lot of players, I stated the game with a 1/2 set and could probably do just fine with a half set. My brother went that route. He started pulling clubs out when he realized a few never ever needed cleaning post-round. He's down to ~ 6 clubs and when he gets a chance to do a bit of putting pre-round we're shot for shot over 9-holes (he finds 18 a boring waste of time). I carry 14 clubs, know all my distances, and can struggle to beat him if I spray it even remotely.