Starting the backswing and downswing

[rossvanwyk]

Hey guys

So I have a couple questions as I need some genuine answers and feelings I can work on.

I am having real difficulty starting my backswing these days as well as the downswing.

I would love to be able to have a shorter backswing. The problem is, it never feels comfortable and I never know where the right point is to begin the downswing. It feels like the end of my club gets a tail, if that makes any sense? It's moving around like Furyk basically. I have been playing with a full backswing like Daly lately as it feels like I at least get to an ''end'' of the swing and can begin my downswing. I hope you're with me thus far.

Wrt the downswing, do you feel like it's coming back along the exact same plane as the backswing? SOmetimes my backswing feels so uncomfortable I just have to pull out and start again. Does anyone else have this problem? It's really frustrating. I would just love a simple way to start the backswing, know where the correct point is to end it and have a simple downswing movement. Lately I've really learnt how to swing within myself which is great as I used to really get after it. But this backswing problem is giving me issues.

All the pro's I see have checked backswings it seems. I would love to get that 3/4 feel even though I know it's further than that.

Any drills or info or help anyone can give me? If I havent made sense I can attempt to clarify further.

Cheers guys

[rossvanwyk]

Anyone able to offer some tidbits of advice?

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

Hey guys

So I have a couple questions as I need some genuine answers and feelings I can work on.

I am having real difficulty starting my backswing these days as well as the downswing.

I would love to be able to have a shorter backswing. The problem is, it never feels comfortable and I never know where the right point is to begin the downswing. It feels like the end of my club gets a tail, if that makes any sense? It's moving around like Furyk basically. I have been playing with a full backswing like Daly lately as it feels like I at least get to an ''end'' of the swing and can begin my downswing. I hope you're with me thus far.

Wrt the downswing, do you feel like it's coming back along the exact same plane as the backswing? SOmetimes my backswing feels so uncomfortable I just have to pull out and start again. Does anyone else have this problem? It's really frustrating. I would just love a simple way to start the backswing, know where the correct point is to end it and have a simple downswing movement. Lately I've really learnt how to swing within myself which is great as I used to really get after it. But this backswing problem is giving me issues.

All the pro's I see have checked backswings it seems. I would love to get that 3/4 feel even though I know it's further than that.

Any drills or info or help anyone can give me? If I havent made sense I can attempt to clarify further.

Cheers guys

Do you restrict your hip turn on your backswing?

[rossvanwyk]

Hmmm I don't think so. Why?

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

Hmmm I don't think so. Why?

If you don't restrict your hip turn you're able turn back a lot more.  You'll shorten your swing by restricting your hips and you'll likely create more power.  They say if you turn your shoulders 90 degrees then you should only turn your hips 45 degrees.

[rossvanwyk]

Ok. I hear what you're saying. But the main problem I'm having is I can't feel where the end of my backswing should be. I don't want to feel like I'm stopping it in the middle of nowhere. But perhaps by restricting the hips, I will feel an ''end'' of the swing a lot sooner than I am at the moment.

Thanks

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

Ok. I hear what you're saying. But the main problem I'm having is I can't feel where the end of my backswing should be. I don't want to feel like I'm stopping it in the middle of nowhere. But perhaps by restricting the hips, I will feel an ''end'' of the swing a lot sooner than I am at the moment.

Thanks

I think you will.  I try to restrict my hips as much as possible.  Before I did I swung the club way past parallel.  Now my swing typically finishes right at parallel.  I know when the backswing is complete because the only way I can swing it back more is to turn my hips.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

If you don't restrict your hip turn you're able turn back a lot more.  You'll shorten your swing by restricting your hips and you'll likely create more power.  They say if you turn your shoulders 90 degrees then you should only turn your hips 45 degrees.

45 degrees is not "restricting" your hip turn to most people. When most people hear "restrict" they turn them 10. Not many people turn them > 45°.

[rossvanwyk]

Alrighty, got you. I'll give that a go. My hips aren't something I ever think about in my swing to be honest. Shoulder turn yes, but hips, no. No idea what those guys are even doing :)

I'll be concious of the hips and try keep em a little more quiet.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by iacas

45 degrees is not "restricting" your hip turn to most people. When most people hear "restrict" they turn them 10. Not many people turn them > 45°.

Hey I try to feel like I'm not turning them at all, but I'm sure I am.  Is the 90 degree shoulder/45 degree hip turn no longer considered a good ratio?  Didn't they call that the X factor back in the day?

[rossvanwyk]

So what exactly should the hips be doing Erik?

[EverythingGolf]

Here is some images to get you started with your back swing.

In this first one is the setup (triangle) at address. Grant Waite

The images below shows him maintaining the triangle by using his upper body (shoulders) and not his arms or wrist to take the club back.

In the second image the right arm will start to bend.

When the club gets to parallel to the ground the right arm will be slightly bent, from there just continue to bring the club to the top.

[Precis1on]

The concept of a straight right arm has helped me really restrict the length of my backswing, but maintain the width which is also important for distance and consistency. Right when my right arm begins to bend, my lower body begins moving the other direction. Tapatalking, sorry for typos and autocorrect.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

Hey I try to feel like I'm not turning them at all, but I'm sure I am.  Is the 90 degree shoulder/45 degree hip turn no longer considered a good ratio?  Didn't they call that the X factor back in the day?

The X Factor isn't even endorsed by the guy that created it anymore. There is the "X Factor Stretch" but that has more to do with starting the downswing with the lower body just slightly ahead.

As I said, I don't think most people consider 45° to be "restricted." When you say "restrict the hip turn" most people will turn their hips about 45°. We almost never see people turning their hips more than 45°.

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

So what exactly should the hips be doing Erik?

Turning enough to allow an 80-100° shoulder turn. For some people that's 20°. For others it's 50°. Most settle in around 30-35° if I had to put a number on it.

What it feels like to people is another matter entirely.

[rossvanwyk]

Ok great, thanks for the info.

I'm going to try rather figure out a good point for my hips to end, which will stop my shoulder turn and thus the club. Because at the moment I'm so aware of where the clubhead is in my backswing that it just never stops going until I get to the very end.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk

Ok great, thanks for the info.

I'm going to try rather figure out a good point for my hips to end, which will stop my shoulder turn and thus the club. Because at the moment I'm so aware of where the clubhead is in my backswing that it just never stops going until I get to the very end.

I know there are a ton more complicated things that could be thrown your way.  Just trying to keep it simple since this is the internet and I'm totally shooting in the dark.  It might be just a feel thing for me, but I control the length of my backswing by restricting my hips.  The tension built with this move also helps me to start my downswing from the ground up so that my hips are more open than my shoulders near impact.

[rossvanwyk]

Haha, I don't want complicated things. It's not really the way I approach this game. I like to think about as few things as possible. my ball striking is really good at the moment, just sometimes I totally lose consistency and it feels uncomfortable and I'm just trying to develop a much more consistent backswing and feel.

Definitely going to concentrate on the hips to shorten the backswing. I really think it will help.

[westcyderydin]

Maybe check the tempo of your backswing.  If you are taking the club back too quickly, you might have a problem feeling the back wall of your swing...to use an archery term...

A drill you can do is to skip your backswing and put your hands (with the club in them of course) in what some people might call "the slot", or the place at the top where you start your downswing.  Then take a practice swing.  Do that a couple of times and get the feel of where your hands are...and feel the club accelerate from the top.

Then do the same thing, but add a slow backswing to get to that point and take a few more practice swings.  You can even pause at the top, then start the downswing.

Then speed up the backswing a tad until you get to a smooth, comfortable tempo...and then hit some balls.

Sometimes you can get a little to quick in the backswing...especially when you have problems triggering it.  If you accelerate back then you misuse the energy that you want to build up in your downswing, you get your timing out of whack, and your transition, downswing, impact, and followthrough get messed up which leads to poor shots.

Get your body and mind to feel the downswing...the backswing is just a way to get your downswing started in a good timing and position.