2012 Crowne Plaza Invitational at Colonial

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

He seems abrupt and sparse with words -- like his swing.

I can see where that might turn people off - he does not seem to have a big smile or easygoing nature on camera.

In Australia, people like him are referred to as "wankers".

Is that a term you use in the U.S.?

[the19thhole]

Originally Posted by Shorty

In Australia, people like him are referred to as "wankers".

Is that a term you use in the U.S.?

This is why Australia is such a great place to live. They say it how it is. Really made me laugh out loud.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

So, by reading this thread, I was under the impression that ZJ's caddie alerted him to the rules violation.  Apparently that's not the case and it was Kostis.  I do have a problem with that:

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/blog/eye-on-golf/19184163/did-network-affect-outcome-of-colonial-event-for-the-betterment-of-all

I've always had a problem with things of this nature.  I don't wish for ZJ to have lost a tourney based on this rule/incident, but I don't like outside/external forces determining an event.  I also don't like viewers at home calling in rules violations and getting outcomes changed, but that's just me.

I'll disagree with you there.

If I was there (as a spectator, media, caddie, whatever) and he'd have been one shot closer (i.e. could change the outcome), I'd have yelled out "move your ball back!" once I saw him replace it in the wrong place. I might still have done it with his 3-shot lead.

I was curious why Peter didn't do this. Maybe he knew it wouldn't matter, or maybe he wasn't entirely sure (it didn't sound like he was entirely sure). Normally I imagine he'd signal to Damon or something.

I consider such a thing part of the spirit of the Rules of Golf. If you see someone about to violate a rule and can stop them, you owe it to the game and your personal integrity to stop them, whether they're your opponent, partner, or another guy on the course.

[the19thhole]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

He seems abrupt and sparse with words -- like his swing.

I can see where that might turn people off - he does not seem to have a big smile or easygoing nature on camera.

And yes, I think it is wrong to want a stupid gaffe to cost him a win.

Sorry, but I just didn't want him to win. I know it's bad of me to think that.

Originally Posted by Chas

Yes .... but I forgive you.

Thank you kind Sir.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by iacas

I was curious why Peter didn't do this. Maybe he knew it wouldn't matter, or maybe he wasn't entirely sure (it didn't sound like he was entirely sure). Normally I imagine he'd signal to Damon or something.

My guess is that he wasn`t 100% sure and I think ZJ was practically over the putt before he started to think about it.

As far as outside help goes, I think it is a two way street- Unless Dufner and his caddy are really cheesy, they aren`t going to observe a player fail to return his marker and then call it on him.  Most gentlemen will either say it before you putt (or simply aren`t paying attention, which I think was the case here).

Not sure about the scorer or rules officials (at least one observed but didn`t help Dustin Johnson with that "trap" at the PGA), but being that Damon Green wasn`t watching and ZJ completely forgot, it was likely that Kostis both saved the tournament (by pointing it out before he signed) and cost him two shots (by mentioning it at all, unless there was someone else who noticed it and was waiting to say something).

I stopped watching also- did he have to go back and make the putt from the correct spot (counting a penalty shot and the wrong shot), or did he simply get a two stroke penalty?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Not sure about the scorer or rules officials (at least one observed but didn`t help Dustin Johnson with that "trap" at the PGA), but being that Damon Green wasn`t watching and ZJ completely forgot, it was likely that Kostis both saved the tournament (by pointing it out before he signed) and cost him two shots (by mentioning it at all, unless there was someone else who noticed it and was waiting to say something).

I stopped watching also- did he have to go back and make the putt from the correct spot (counting a penalty shot and the wrong shot), or did he simply get a two stroke penalty?

B. Two stroke penalty.

Dustin only broke the penalty when he touched the sand. An official couldn't have known he'd have done that, and since it was sand on a course with 1000+ bunkers, he assumed Dustin was aware that it was a bunker. Different scenario entirely - Zach could have been warned for almost a full minute, Dustin touched the sand and it was already too late.

Kostis didn't cost him two shots, to be clear. Zach broke the rule, and he'd have been DQed. Your first statement was more accurate (he saved the tournament by mentioning it to him, if he was the one who mentioned it). It's a good thing Zach made the putt. It wasn't easy, and with what he thought was three strokes to spare, he could have been cavalier about it.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by Shorty

In Australia, people like him are referred to as "wankers".

It's an English term, used more in Oz it's true ...... because there are so many more of them there

Only kidding, some of my best friends are Oz.

For ZJ? - what a ridiculous use of the term.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by iacas

B. Two stroke penalty.

Dustin only broke the penalty when he touched the sand. An official couldn't have known he'd have done that, and since it was sand on a course with 1000+ bunkers, he assumed Dustin was aware that it was a bunker. Different scenario entirely - Zach could have been warned for almost a full minute, Dustin touched the sand and it was already too late.

Kostis didn't cost him two shots, to be clear. Zach broke the rule, and he'd have been DQed. Your first statement was more accurate (he saved the tournament by mentioning it to him, if he was the one who mentioned it). It's a good thing Zach made the putt. It wasn't easy, and with what he thought was three strokes to spare, he could have been cavalier about it.

Thanks

What you are saying about DJ is correct, but how many times have you seen fans standing in a bunker before a player arrives to his ball?  Watching it on TV, I thought I saw some sand and was questioning what it was (as DJ should have done), but I certainly wasn`t 100% clear that it was a bunker.  It was odd enough looking that someone could have said, "you know you are in a bunker, don`t you?"  This wasn`t anyones responsibility, but it could certainly have been helpful as I can`t recall too many situations where being in a bunker was so ambiguous.

With Zach, did he really take almost a minute from the time he replaced the ball without moving the mark back to the time he putted it?    The time to warn him would have been if you saw him move the mark and then go straight to the moved mark and put the ball down.  Once he is standing over the putt, I couldn`t see anyone say anything at that point as they either didn`t see/wasn`t sure they saw the whole sequence or was too shy to say anything at first (and wouldn`t necessarily lose that shyness when the guy was actually over the putt).

Kostis did say something live on air just before he putted, but he didn`t sound 100% sure.  I realize it was ZJ mistake.  When I said he cost him 2 shots, I guess what I meant was that if nobody noticed the infraction and ZJ didn`t realize it himself, at some point the tournament would have become official with him winning by 3 unless someone noticed the infraction and called it on him.  Fate was definitely shining on ZJ as a blunder like that would normally cost a pro in contention a lot of $.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

What you are saying about DJ is correct, but how many times have you seen fans standing in a bunker before a player arrives to his ball?

Let's avoid re-hashing that all again. How many times have you played a course with 1000+ bunkers.

Originally Posted by MEfree

Kostis did say something live on air just before he putted, but he didn`t sound 100% sure.  I realize it was ZJ mistake.  When I said he cost him 2 shots, I guess what I meant was that if nobody noticed the infraction and ZJ didn`t realize it himself, at some point the tournament would have become official with him winning by 3 unless someone noticed the infraction and called it on him.  Fate was definitely shining on ZJ as a blunder like that would normally cost a pro in contention a lot of $.

Someone would have noticed it fairly promptly. Though the "tournament would be over" pretty quickly. Zach would still have won, and won by three, and even the staunchest of rules advocates would have to admit it wouldn't change the outcome, so I think the calls for him to be DQed would have been minimal (I'd say non-existent but people be crazy yo!).

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by iacas

How many times have you played a course with 1000+ bunkers.

What a maintenance nightmare...that`s over 50 per hole!

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by MEfree

What a maintenance nightmare...that`s over 50 per hole!

I don't think they're maintained.  Don't get me started on that abomination of an event.

Brandon

[iacas]

[bplewis24]