New Swing.. Advice or Critism please.

[Dent]

Ive uploaded 2 swings from different angled. I know i posted a video in january but i think ive tweaked my swing a little and would like some critism/comments or advice. Thanks

Here are the 2 vids:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...62304841122638
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...66310154032642

Both are with a 7 iron off the tee.
Sorry the Camera is so shaky.
Greatly Appreciated.

[Dent]

If any of the videos dont work, I apologize.

[scotton]

I only looked at the first video, and I didn't get out the Johnny Miller telestrator to check your angles or anything. The only thing I noticed was that when you practice swing, your left side is staying firm, but when you hit the ball you seem to be falling back a little bit. Hitting to a firm left side may be old school golf wisdom that contradicts modern teaching, so feel free to ignore anything I say. Or ignore it just because I'm an anonymous fool on the internet. But watch it again and see if you aren't falling back just a little bit on your swing. Everything else looked pretty good to me.

Note that I will never post video of my swing up here, because I don't have those kind of huevos.

[ksuchewie]

You're 7 iron shot should be further back in your stance...in my opinion. In your shot, is where it would be for a 4/5 iron for me.

[scotton]

So I watched the second one and I'm thinking you need to get your spine a little straighter. You seem to be hunching down on the ball a little bit. Go with the bar stool idea, get the back straighter and stick the rump out (like you are about to sit on a bar stool). Your spine is the axis for your upper body rotation, and it will rotate more consistently on a straight axis.

Or not.

For your ball position, the new Butch Harmon idea is to play every ball there, and bring the right foot in closer for shorter irons. I don't roll that way because I like the crisp feel I get when hitting a short iron in the middle of my stance, but I don't think having your ball more forward in your stance is going to hurt you. So do what you like, but if you start feeling like you're not getting a crisp trap on the ball, you may want to skooch it back. I like to think of trying to pinch the ball with the short irons, like trying to jump a cue ball in pool.

[Parker0065]

Ah to be young and flexible again!!!! You have a very nice swing Dent!


I agree with Scotton that your posture could use a little work. I would work on bending your knees just a bit more, rear out and back a little straighter. Stand in front of a mirror at home and practice getting into a proper posture.



These are just slight changes or tweaks as I like to call them. You have a very nice swing and your just a few tweaks away from becoming a very good player! Posture was something I kind of ignored for a number of years and kinda got away with it. Once I made a commitment to improve my posture my game really took off and I started winning tournaments!


Good Luck

[outrider2288]

like the others have said ur swing seems very good. the only thing i can see (aside from wat the others have said) is that it seems your head is cocked a little, like away from the ball. ur entire upper body looks to be tilted a little bit away from the ball. i dont know if that it how u want it or if thats the way u were taught, i jus know that i was always taught that ur head should be directly above the ball at all times.
if you are fading the ball a little sometimes this could be why, i have this same problem where i tend to fall off a little which causes a fade

...just my 2 cents tho, good luck w/ ur swing, like i said it looks pretty good

[outrider2288]

im sure uve seens or at least heard of this, but heres the video of Tiger's swing in slow-motion. u can see how he keeps his head above the ball and still thru out the entire swing
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18355418627155

[JKilgore44]

I think your set-up and back swing are extremely fundamental. All around, you have a pretty solid swing. The only thing I noticed that could be improved is your club coming through the "hit zone". Remember that after contact, your club and hands should continue straight down the target line, so it seems like your right hand is "shaking hands" with that target. Keep the club head low and straight down the target line and it'll help straighten and strengthen some of your shots out. In all though, you have a great swing, keep it up.

[CG031]

u have a really nice swing. it's very smooth and non herky jerky..i think it looks like sometimes u lose ur balence, and fall away, but everyone does that every once in a while.

[Dent]

Thank you all. I agree my head is further tilted away from the ball and i notice that right away. I definatly sometimes lose my balance and i can tell that my knees are not bent at all, Thanks all for the tip on the spine and posture, that is definatly a new one i will work on. I greatly aprreciate all the critisim and will work on all of these next time i get out.

[scotton]

At your age my swing looked like a fat lady falling down a flight of stairs. (Now it looks like an over-the-hill Hooter's waitress falling off a skateboard. That's called 20 years of progress). You are way ahead of the game, and your willingness to accept criticism will help in the future. Remember that everyone you play with will think they can fix you. Unless they are breaking 70 or happen to be a PGA pro, give them the smile and nod and ignore anything they say. This especially applies to any advice from me (except for my advice to ignore advice).

[Chilidipper]

Ive uploaded 2 swings from different angled. I know i posted a video in january but i think ive tweaked my swing a little and would like some critism/comments or advice. Thanks

Dent maybe some knee bend. A little more club head lag. Everything else looked good to me. Dent the main thing is to work with one pro who you see eye to eye with and stick to him. I wouldn't listen to a bunch of people on the internet.

[Ringer]

Dent.. Forget everything people are saying about your head being cocked back. They're just not used to a PROPER TILT at setup. You are so close to PGA tour quality swing don't ruin it by paying attention to every snippet of advice you can get. Now is the time you need to be much more careful about what you work on.

Now I'll give you my professional analysis.
I may have to break this into two posts because of so many pictures.



Setup:
You have a good stance width and we can tell you're quite tall. The axis tilt you have is absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't change a thing about your axis tilt. Keep it right where it is.

There are a few things to change though. Your mid body hands for one. Now I know some people like mid body hands but I prefer them pushed slightly forward or even with the ball. This helps promote getting them slightly ahead of the ball for impact and avoids hitting it fat and thin from an early release.

Next is your knee bend. I believe this is partially because you're too close to the ball. I drew a green line straight up from the arch of your back foot and we can see that ALL of your leg is behind that green line. That means you're straightening out your legs to balance your upper body. This is very common for people too close to the ball. We need to get you just a tad bit further form the ball and getting some flex in those knees. That knee flex will become a major factor later in your swing.

Lastly I would like to see the VERY small amount of arch you have in your back straighten out a bit. It's not a major concern by any means... it's more on the nit picky side, but it will cause your swing to get cramped at impact when combined with the straight legged look.

I can't really see your grip at the setup, but later in the swing we have a hint.



Takeaway:
What a beautiful takeaway. This is the very model of a takeaway everyone should hope to achieve. The forearms are not initiating any sort of roll back, it's all shoulder turn. The right elbow is staying out in front of your ribcage and will continue to do so through your whole backswing. This is ideal and we can see the right arm still slightly above the left in the face on view.

You haven't SHIFTED your weight to your backfoot because all you're doing is turning your upper body back. Because of the proper axis tilt at setup and a good shoulder turn, your weight is already over the instep of your back foot. I drew a green line in the face on view of roughly where I would say your center of gravity is. Your spine angle is superb still while we can all see the left shoulder just simply rotating under your chin and moving to get over the back foot. In the down the line view I put an arrow to your left arm to show that it is remaining close to the body while the hands work away. This is something the top tour players do and is rarely ever seen with amatures.




Halfway Back:
Here we can see you maintaining the right elbow out in front of your ribcage. This is ideal as it places the right arm much more under the shaft and allows for a powerful right sided motion if you so choose.

Your back hip is remaining stationary while the front hip is rotating around trailing your left shoulder. This is the idea hip action I prefer to see. It's very stable and allows you to keep that axis tilt.

At this stage you have let the clubs momentum take over the backswing as we see it's fully hinged your wrists. Now the club is pulling you instead of the other way around. This is good. That means you're loading up for the forward swing rather than trying to complete a backswing. Keeping your mind in the future and of the forwards swing is much much more preferable.

Again in the face on view I drew the green line to indicate where about your center of gravity is and we can see it's still over the inside of your back foot.

If there is one thing I wish everyone would pull from this photo it's of the stability of that right hip. It hasn't budged since the setup. Everything is rotating around IT. None of this reverse pivot staying centered nonsense.. it's a solid shift to the inside of the back foot while creating torque around the right thigh.




Top:
Here at the top we see a tour quality position. Although there is a slight wobble of the right knee from being kicked slightly inward to won that is now a bit more over the foot, it's not unstable. It's got a lot of pressure on it so a little wobble is understood. As long as you keep it under you and torqued.

In the face on view I circled his right thigh because you can see how loaded up on it he is. He can fire it allong those red arrows ASAP and he'll be gold. His spine angle is fantastic still and it hasn't changed much since setup. Perhaps a tad bit more up and down but he's still angled well behind the ball.

In the down the line view we see just a slight bend of his right knee which is crutial to keeping the torque. An arrow points to his right elbow indicating that it hasn't "flewn" away from him and is still out just in front of his ribcage. And finally another green arrow pointing that his hands and the club are just barely off of his right shoulder. He's set perfectly over what we call the "Turned Shoulder Plane".

There is an ever so slight upward motion of his upper body. He's standing just a tad bit taller and upright than in all the previous frames. It's because his armswing and club pulled him just a little bit. Nothing to be concerned about since he should be able to drop it all right back down once he gets started on his forward swing. He didn't loose his balance.. it just shows that he is as coiled as he'll ever be.

...... cut to next post.

[Ringer]

Halfway To Ball:
Now things get a little goofy. Everything was perfect about the backswing, but now everything at setup is going to cause problems... but you do a remarkable set of things to make it all work.

The lead hip is moving forward to re-establish it's old position. Only problem is the old position was on your heels. You just got INTO balance on your backswing and now you need to fall OUT of balance to make contact with the ball. It's slight, but it causes a domino effect.

Despite being perfectly loaded on the right leg, your knee and thigh haven't budged. They SHOULD be driving hard forward but instead you keep them planted. My thought is that someone taught you to do this. It's very un-natural to keep the right foot down for so long unless someone is trying to hit the ball UP. I have a hard time believe someone as gifted as you even toys with such nonsense as trying to hit the ball UP in the air.

It is because of this lack of right side drive, I might suggest just a tad bit more width of your stance. Normally I wouldn't say to do it because your setup is actually quite good width wise... but sometimes you have to fool around with something in the setup to promote something during the swing. In this case a slightly wider base might do you some good.

The good news is you're keeping your spine tilt. This is going to allow for you to have some great lag.




Impact:
Here we can really see you arching your back to give your hands room to swing. Proof that you were too close at setup. You're standing much more upright and your back foot hasn't even left the ground yet. Yuk yuk yuk. Your backswing was so good and it's now ruined because of the impact positon you're being forced into from your setup. If timed just right this ball might go right with a big hook. If not then you'll fade it but it's going to require prefect forearm timing. If you DO, then you'll CREAM the ball. The ball will absolutely sizzle off the face but you won't feel as if you've "RELEASED" anything. It's too cramped in there. No extension... just roll.

We can see your left hip well back off of your heel. A clear indication you're trying to pull away from the ball.

I might have spoken to early about the back foot staying on the ground. You might be keeping it on the ground just so you can maintain your spine angle. It's not helping, but on rare occasions it is sometimes the reason why people keep it on the ground. All it's realy doing is forcing a SLIDE of the hips instead of a TURN. Sliding of the hips is to counter the "accross" the body armswing by forcing the shoulders to stay closed to the target longer. They are two offsetting moves both fighting each other for your overall swing.

With enough hip slide you hit more of a push. With not enough you'll hit a pull which is why I suspect you do it.

I suspect you have many days where you just don't know WHERE it's going but not a single person can tell you why.... well I'm telling you it's because of a hip slide trying to counter a wayward armswing.

On this particular swing your hands got slightly ahead of the ball, your forearms have GREATLY rolled to impact, you have sufficient hip slide and your right shoulder didn't get TOO far off course. I'd be willing to bet you hit a decent push with this one looking down the line and possibly even hooked it with that much forearm roll. It's harder to tell in the face on view.



Follow Through:
You're starting to arch your back backwards as your right hip FINALLY decides to go through the shot. The right foot is comming off the ground now LONG after the ball has been struck. The right shoulder does stay down again making the case that this was a push but we can clearly see the hands aren't even visible in the down the line view anymore. That right forarm really tried to get over the left. The club is out in front of your body so low that we can tell your forearms rolled hard just after impact trying to correct the clubface and avoid the shot to the right.




Finish:
Two pictures taken at slightly different parts of your finish. Just wanted to say I LOVE the extension we finally see of the right arm. The down the line view is the completed swing and what I call the "fake finish". It's not where you really stopped the swing it where your body settled in to watch the shot. Your hands went very high, then drop down to your shoulder to relax as you watch the ball. This can be decieving if you're trying to finish in a particular way. The manner you are holding the club in your "fake finish" is that of a blocker of the ball and you quite clearly are not. You have a strong rotation of your forearms but appear to have none on this fake finish.

I drew a line indicating where about I thought the arch of your left foot was. It splits your body up so that we can tell about where you are finishing with your weight and it appears that it's just slightly on the heel. I would expect this from your setup.


Comments:

Lets do a quick side by side comparrison of setup and impact.



They are darn near identical. Almost the same axis tilt, hand position and weight distribution. That's pretty cool, but not good for a potential tour caliber player. Really all you need to do is learn to fire the right side on the forward swing and fix your setup so you have a bit more room to swing.

You have good forearm co-ordination, now you just have to give them room to extend through impact so you can stop worrying about the arms comming accross your body.

[JeffG]

Wow......what a thorough breakdown

*Rushing to course with camera in hand*

[Mhinderaker]

Wow......what a thorough breakdown

Haha, I laughed at that one.

I'm sure the response to my swing would be something more like: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?!?!?!"

[scotton]

I had the same analysis he did, I just didn't feel like doing all that typing. Thanks for the assist, buddy.

Wow.