Any power lifters in here?

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Stretched? I don't know about that... (regarding deadlifts)

Do some straight leg deadlifts....they are what helped get my flexibility back in my hamstrings.  Bending over to start the lifts stretches the hamstrings in regular deads as well, just not as much as SLDL.  It's no yoga by any means, but it helps more than hurts as far as flexibility

If you are doing deads and your muscles from the waist up aren't being stretched, you need to add more weight.  It stretches my chest so much it feels like it's going to pull my pectoral muscles. Everything in your shoulers are stretched because you are supposed to let the weight hang as low as possible.  Your bis are definitely stretched....hence the reason many people experience bicep tears and pulls.  Anyway, you can see where I'm going.  Hamstrings not so much on regular deadlifts except at the start of the lift along with the quads slighlty.  Calves not stretched really.

All my opinion from my experience and not trying to argue. It all depends on form and which exercise you are doing exactly...I should have been a little more specific I guess

[Tuflehundon]

I lift but don't do much leg workouts. My legs are big enough as it is, and I already have a hard time finding pants that fit right.

[CPFitness]

Originally Posted by Tuflehundon

I lift but don't do much leg workouts. My legs are big enough as it is, and I already have a hard time finding pants that fit right.

IF you train properly, your legs will get stronger and not bigger.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by CPFitness

IF you train properly, your legs will get stronger and not bigger.

And leaner with clean eating

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by TN94z

Do some straight leg deadlifts....they are what helped get my flexibility back in my hamstrings.  Bending over to start the lifts stretches the hamstrings in regular deads as well, just not as much as SLDL.  It's no yoga by any means, but it helps more than hurts as far as flexibility

If you are doing deads and your muscles from the waist up aren't being stretched, you need to add more weight.  It stretches my chest so much it feels like it's going to pull my pectoral muscles. Everything in your shoulers are stretched because you are supposed to let the weight hang as low as possible.  Your bis are definitely stretched....hence the reason many people experience bicep tears and pulls.  Anyway, you can see where I'm going.  Hamstrings not so much on regular deadlifts except at the start of the lift along with the quads slighlty.  Calves not stretched really.

All my opinion from my experience and not trying to argue. It all depends on form and which exercise you are doing exactly...I should have been a little more specific I guess

I think the part in bold is key in what you're saying.

Now, look at the top of the backswing of pro golfers. That is definitely a longer range of motion than most have. Power lifting and no flexibility programme will not get you that sort of swing range.

[Macca400]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

I think the part in bold is key in what you're saying.

Now, look at the top of the backswing of pro golfers. That is definitely a longer range of motion than most have. Power lifting and no flexibility programme will not get you that sort of swing range.

I don't think the idea was ever that lifting weights would replace a good flexibility work out, rather that it would supplement a good flexibility workout. And if proper technique was used would not hamper flexibility, and  help flexibility and general mobility.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Macca400

I don't think the idea was ever that lifting weights would replace a good flexibility work out, rather that it would supplement a good flexibility workout. And if proper technique was used would not hamper flexibility, and  help flexibility and general mobility.

That's what I'm disagreeing with. If you do power lifting alone, your muscles become stiff, within the range of motion that you lift in. It makes it harder to go past that range of motion.

That's why people lose flexibility altogether, because they strain their muscles (even if just through walking) within a limited range of motion.

That's a fact. And the more you strain your muscle, the more susceptible it becomes to tighten up.

[Macca400]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

That's what I'm disagreeing with. If you do power lifting alone, your muscles become stiff, within the range of motion that you lift in. It makes it harder to go past that range of motion.

That's why people lose flexibility altogether, because they strain their muscles (even if just through walking) within a limited range of motion.

That's a fact. And the more you strain your muscle, the more susceptible it becomes to tighten up.

I don't think weights hamper flexibility in the least, if performed correctly (Unless your actual size prohibits movement) I follow the same flexibility workouts I did before I started weights, and I'd easily say I'm more flexible, and mobile than I was before weights. The majority of inflexibility(and most injuries) come from muscles imbalances. Which weights can correct. And if done improperly can cause. So I understand your point, but don't see it as an issue if your not lifting like a muppet.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

I think the part in bold is key in what you're saying.

Now, look at the top of the backswing of pro golfers. That is definitely a longer range of motion than most have. Power lifting and no flexibility programme will not get you that sort of swing range.

I'm not saying that it would.  I think you may be misunderstanding me.  I'm just saying that proper power lifting will not "hinder" flexibility in that it will make you less flexible than you were.  Of course, if you won't the kind of flexibility that Rory has, you need to work at it specifically.

Originally Posted by Macca400

I don't think the idea was ever that lifting weights would replace a good flexibility work out, rather that it would supplement a good flexibility workout. And if proper technique was used would not hamper flexibility, and  help flexibility and general mobility.

Yes. This is pretty much what I am saying.  Basically this started with my buddy telling me that because I have gone to powerlifting, it would restrict my range of motion that I currently have in my swing and result in a worse golf game.  I disagree with that.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

That's what I'm disagreeing with. If you do power lifting alone, your muscles become stiff, within the range of motion that you lift in. It makes it harder to go past that range of motion.

That's why people lose flexibility altogether, because they strain their muscles (even if just through walking) within a limited range of motion.

That's a fact. And the more you strain your muscle, the more susceptible it becomes to tighten up

Now with all that being said, if you are doing more of a body building style routine with goals of getting big, then I agree....you lose flexibilty just from the mass. Now if you are saying that doing power lifting ONLY with absolutely no stretching....then you could have a point, but I would still argue the point.  But anyone that has any clue what they are doing.....stretches to warm up.  Otherwise, you're just asking for injury and what not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macca400

I don't think weights hamper flexibility in the least, if performed correctly (Unless your actual size prohibits movement) I follow the same flexibility workouts I did before I started weights, and I'd easily say I'm more flexible, and mobile than I was before weights. The majority of inflexibility(and most injuries) come from muscles imbalances. Which weights can correct. And if done improperly can cause. So I understand your point, but don't see it as an issue if your not lifting like a muppet.

Agreed

Stiff joints hinder flexibility.  Weight lifting stengthens the joints as well and as stated above, corrects muscle imbalance.

[Kapanda]

Yeah, but again, are we trying to be as flexible as it takes to do flies, or are we trying to be as flexible as possible for our golf game?

You guys aren't really disagreeing with me, you're just saying that weight training can get you flexible to a point.

Additionally, while I can't tell what causes the majority of inflexibility, I can say that weight training can cause inflexibility. Not in that it will lead to a lower range of motion, but that it will make a larger range of motion harder to achieve if not done in conjunction with a flexibility programme .

" Strength training can make you stronger and firmer, but that doesnt mean it will keep you from being limber. The new proof. In a study published in The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, participants who performed strength-training in conjunction with stretching (twice a week for three months) saw increases in range of motion similar to those who just did flexibility exercises. Don't have time to hang out and stretch? Do it while you're watching TV, or limber up while resting between weight moves. -J.D."

Detz, J. (2006, Lift weights, lose flexibility? no! Shape, 25 , 98-98. http://search.proquest.com/docview/195313448?accountid=9940

[TN94z]

Yeah, but again, are we trying to be as flexible as it takes to do flies, or are we trying to be as flexible as possible for our golf game? You guys aren't really disagreeing with me, you're just saying that weight training can get you flexible to a point. Additionally, while I can't tell what causes the majority of inflexibility, I can say that weight training can cause inflexibility. Not in that it will lead to a lower range of motion, but that it will make a larger range of motion harder to achieve if not done in conjunction with a flexibility programme . " Strength training can make you stronger and firmer, but that doesnt mean it will keep you from being limber. The new proof. In a study published in The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, participants who performed strength-training in conjunction with stretching (twice a week for three months) saw increases in range of motion similar to those who just did flexibility exercises. Don't have time to hang out and stretch? Do it while you're watching TV, or limber up while resting between weight moves. -J.D." Detz, J. (2006, Lift weights, lose flexibility? no! Shape, 25 , 98-98. [URL=http://search.proquest.com/docview/195313448?accountid=9940]http://search.proquest.com/docview/195313448?accountid=9940[/URL]

I think we are saying alot of the same stuff...haha! That qoute says when used in conjunction with stretching saw in an increase which would indicate weights alone didnt hinder flexibility. My point is this...at my flexibility level with my swing currently, the weights will not cause me to have less flexibility than I've had. It won't increase the flexibility....but the level would remain the same. Now I understand that if I want to have better flexibility, I need to add in that work. But I think while lifting weights, I won't get stiffer than I was. Anyway, I'll just agree to disagree...if that's what we are doing I think your first line is where we differ. To be as flexible as possible for the golf game, I agree, power lifting alone would not be the best thing to do. But power lifting along with a stretching routine would increase the flexibilty. Also, just to add to this...I do stretch too. I just asked the question based on my conversation at work.

[Leftygolfer]

Power lifting will not have any adverse effects on your golf.  I've lifted quite a bit in the past three years and if anything it helps with flexability, particularly legs.  I've got one more marathon in Sept but after that I am going to start a program.  Its called strong lifts.  Essentially you start off really light and add 5 pounds every time, lift 3 days a week, 5 X 5 sets.  You squat , then do bench, bentover rows one day, then squat, military press, dead lifts.  I'm going to feel funny squatting 65 pounds to start, but in 12 weeks, it will be close to 250, then by week 20 I should be squatting over 3, deadlifting 4, bench and everything else be stronger than ever.  My buddy at work has done it for 20 weeks and he likes it alot.  He looks tree trunkish.  His core is thick and really strong now.  The wieght he is doing is impressive.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Leftygolfer

Power lifting will not have any adverse effects on your golf.  I've lifted quite a bit in the past three years and if anything it helps with flexability, particularly legs.  I've got one more marathon in Sept but after that I am going to start a program.  Its called strong lifts.  Essentially you start off really light and add 5 pounds every time, lift 3 days a week, 5 X 5 sets.  You squat , then do bench, bentover rows one day, then squat, military press, dead lifts.  I'm going to feel funny squatting 65 pounds to start, but in 12 weeks, it will be close to 250, then by week 20 I should be squatting over 3, deadlifting 4, bench and everything else be stronger than ever.  My buddy at work has done it for 20 weeks and he likes it alot.  He looks tree trunkish.  His core is thick and really strong now.  The wieght he is doing is impressive.

That's if you have shitty flexibility to begin with.

The scientific journal reference I posted shows that.

For what it's worth, I envision the main issue coming from weight lifting without a flexibility programme being on stiff shoulders that can't take the backswing all the way to the top - but that's if we want to emulate a pro golfer's swing (doesn't seem to be the case).

[CPFitness]

There is a great book called Weight training for womens golf by Kai Fusser who was Annika's personal trainer.  He's clearly trying to niche market it towards women but in my opinon (and I'm a personal trainer myself) I think it's a great book for women AND MEN.  It's built mainly around the premise that women tend to have stronger legs as compared to their upper body while men have strong upper bodies as compared to their legs.  It provides solid routines that are easy to understand and integrate and dont take a long time to knock out in the gym.  Everyone is also talking a lot about raw strength and flexibilty but along with flexibility, balance is a necessary requirement and this book addresses that.  IT is periodized training as well so it takes you from the off season with basic getting the body back into working out mode into a strength building phase, then into a power building phase and finally into a maintenance phase.  really good book, I got it from amazon and read it on my kindle app so I have the routines at my finger tips when I'm in the gym.

Reason why I bring this all up is that for WOMEN during the strength phase he advocates HEAVY lifts with 3 sets going 8 reps, 5 reps, 6 reps.  As a trainer, women are always afraid of lifiting heavy for fear that they will get bulky when the reality is that they don't have the testosterone production to get big massive muscles.  As men we do have that ability however powerlifting with low reps doesn't build muscle size, it builds max strength.  It's when men lift in between shooting for 10-12 reps that the body responds by growing the size of the muscles which could then throw things out of wack.  At any rate, don't take my word for it, get the book.  it's very inexpensive in the kindle format, I think I paid 9 bucks.

[pholmes]

absolutely. do it, powerlifting and olympic lifting is much more about teachig the neurons  and muscles to fire quickly and efficiently.  Juat don't let your time under tension get to high, or your muscles will hypertrophy.

[Seymour Dunn]

Originally Posted by pholmes

absolutely. do it, powerlifting and olympic lifting is much more about teachig the neurons  and muscles to fire quickly and efficiently.  Juat don't let your time under tension get to high, or your muscles will hypertrophy.

Here, here. Not convinced it helps golf but if better bodies make better golf swings then the powerlifts plus bent rows, overhead presses, chins are the way to go. No need then for " core " training. If you still don't have a six pack then some push aways will do the trick.

Snatch grip deadlifts off a 4 inch box and snatch grip overhead squats and you'll be chipping back at the greens.

[pholmes]

That was my exact workoutonight,with k-bell swings as a finisher.  good call

[anthony]

I've been "power lifting" for about 5 years now. During the Summer it tapers off in favor of more golf and outdoor activities. As someone else mentioned, I started with the Starting Strength program. It was one of the smartest things I've ever done. All you need is a squat rack, barbell, weights and a bench. It definitely didn't affect my golf game in any negative ways at all. I did let my eating get a little out of control and have lost 30 lbs recently.

It's amazing how much stronger you get focusing on big compound moves like Squats, Deads, Bent over rows and Bench press. If anything it helped my golf game. I used to have back pain from sitting all day and it vanished after I started Starting Strength.

Also, if you lift and don't do any leg exercises, you're doing it wrong. You might "think" you get enough playing golf or riding a bike or whatever, but you're wrong. Squats work every muscle in your body, especially your core. If I had to choose one exercise to do, it would be squats. Crunches and the ab machine are next to worthless compared to squatting and dead lifting. Plus you don't feel like you could punch through a brick wall after a set of crunches.