Match Play... order of play ?

[cape cod beachfront golfer]

The club I formally played at always had a good number of Match Play Tournaments during a season. The club I am now playing at has fewer Match Play format tournaments. Because many of the players at the new club are not experienced at Match Play I am having difficulty getting players to abide by the "strict" order of play Match Play demands. I am about ready to hang up my Match Play hat... I'm tired of angering players by insisting they follow strict order of play. Example: You can not just go up and tap in a missed putt... if it was not "given" by your opponent. I was taught you must mark until your next turn to play... no continuation of 'honors" like there is in stroke play. My members at my new club complain this slows play. Am I being too strict?  And please, what should I do when I am playing an opponent... one on one match play... but there are 2 other players not playing Match Play. Generally, the non playing members are willing to let "honors" for tee shots be between the 2 opponents. But in a recent Match I ended up being mocked over "who's away" because I asked the 2 non Match Play players to honor the rules of  Match Play for putts as well. In at least a couple of early hole situations I felt the other players definitely gave reads to my opponent by putting out of turn. By the 4th hole I felt it was clearly unfair and possibly being done purposefully so I openly raised the point. The rest of the match was tense and not enjoyable. Again I ask am I being too strict? Do players who do not play the Match Play format frequently just not understand there is more to it than just hole by hole scoring?  Or are some doing so deliberately like I felt was taking place in the second example. Like I said... maybe I should just stay out of Match Play situations.

[Fourputt]

I played matches for 22 years in much the same situation, although in a public course men's club, not a private club.  I played quite a few matches with complete strangers making up the remainder of the group.  We explained what was happening on the first tee, and generally had no issues with the casual players.  In fact we usually requested that they not putt until after we did if they were in a position to give a read to one of us, even if they were away.  I never ran into anyone who wouldn't play along with us.

[Dormie1360]

I'm assuming you are at a private club.  This really shouldn't just be your problem.  The Pro, Assistant, Tournament Chairman, etc., whoever is setting up and running the tournaments,(known as the "Committee" in golf rules), should be making sure everyone is playing by match play rules.

Order of play is probably one of the most important rules specific to match play.  If the Committee doesn't care, I'd consider not playing.

My 2 cents.

[Harmonious]

Couple of questions:

How close are those gimmes you are talking about?  If you putted up to six inches or so, did your opponent not give you the putt?  If not, I suppose you would mark, but it would sure make your opponent look petty.  If, however, it was a 3-footer, then your opponent has every right to make to mark.

Why were the two non-players putting out of turn? Whether match or medal, the furthest away should putt first. Or are you saying they lagged up to a couple feet, then tapped in, thus showing a little bit of the line to your opponent?

Now, if you are suggesting that the two non-players should not putt at all until you and your opponent had finished the hole, then I think you are taking it too far. Same with honors on the tee box.  You and your opponent can and should play honors, but it shouldn't mean the two non-players should have to wait until you are done.

[KevCarter]

Originally Posted by cape cod beachfront golfer

The club I formally played at always had a good number of Match Play Tournaments during a season. The club I am now playing at has fewer Match Play format tournaments. Because many of the players at the new club are not experienced at Match Play I am having difficulty getting players to abide by the "strict" order of play Match Play demands. I am about ready to hang up my Match Play hat... I'm tired of angering players by insisting they follow strict order of play. Example: You can not just go up and tap in a missed putt... if it was not "given" by your opponent. I was taught you must mark until your next turn to play... no continuation of 'honors" like there is in stroke play. My members at my new club complain this slows play. Am I being too strict?  And please, what should I do when I am playing an opponent... one on one match play... but there are 2 other players not playing Match Play. Generally, the non playing members are willing to let "honors" for tee shots be between the 2 opponents. But in a recent Match I ended up being mocked over "who's away" because I asked the 2 non Match Play players to honor the rules of  Match Play for putts as well. In at least a couple of early hole situations I felt the other players definitely gave reads to my opponent by putting out of turn. By the 4th hole I felt it was clearly unfair and possibly being done purposefully so I openly raised the point. The rest of the match was tense and not enjoyable. Again I ask am I being too strict? Do players who do not play the Match Play format frequently just not understand there is more to it than just hole by hole scoring?  Or are some doing so deliberately like I felt was taking place in the second example. Like I said... maybe I should just stay out of Match Play situations.

It's not really up to the committee to enforce the rules of match play, nor is it up to you to be "strict." It's up to the opponent to recall a shot or make a claim depending upon the infraction. Start doing that at opportune times, and the players will learn the rules quickly. :-)

Kevin

[Fourputt]

Guys.  Maybe you don't understand what he was saying.  The other two guys in the foursome were not part of the match.  They were just casual players.  The type of competition that the OP is referring to is a bracketed tournament in which the players have a specified time window (it might be a 2 or 3 week span) to get together and play their match, with the winner moving on to the next bracket.  That or the winner gets points toward a season long total.  In any case, the players in the match may not have any control over who they are paired up with, thus the potential issues involved in trying to play a match under the rules while the other 2 players are just out for a casual round.  The 2 casual players should make every effort NOT to do anything which might affect the match.  That includes allowing the match to putt first even if they are closer to the hole, rather than one of the non-involved players possibly assisting one of the match players.

Ideally the match should play by themselves, or line up 2 friends to play with who understand what the situation is (this is what I always tried to do).  That isn't always possible, so if you get paired with a random couple who isn't part of the competition, then you end up with the sort of issues that the OP describes.

[KevCarter]

You are unable to control those who aren't in the match or event, so either don't let it bother you, or play matches as a two ball.

Kevin

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by KevCarter

You are unable to control those who aren't in the match or event, so either don't let it bother you, or play matches as a two ball.

Kevin

On my home course that's rarely an option.  Most days you  are going to be paired with someone whether you like it or not.  That's how it works at public courses.

[KevCarter]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

On my home course that's rarely an option.  Most days you  are going to be paired with someone whether you like it or not.  That's how it works at public courses.

I'm a little familiar with how Public Golf Courses work, LOL, in that case please refer to option one of the sentence and have some fun.

Kevin

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by cape cod beachfront golfer

The club I formally played at always had a good number of Match Play Tournaments during a season. The club I am now playing at has fewer Match Play format tournaments. Because many of the players at the new club are not experienced at Match Play I am having difficulty getting players to abide by the "strict" order of play Match Play demands. I am about ready to hang up my Match Play hat... I'm tired of angering players by insisting they follow strict order of play. Example: You can not just go up and tap in a missed putt... if it was not "given" by your opponent. I was taught you must mark until your next turn to play... no continuation of 'honors" like there is in stroke play. My members at my new club complain this slows play. Am I being too strict?

The reference to tapping in a putt confuses the issue.  It assumes the ball lies so close to the hole that it is easily holed.  If that is the case, the opponent would normally concede the putt so no issue then arises about order of play.

However, what could be happening (though not mentioned) is the practice of some leagues or clubs who combine match and stroke play - in defiance of the rules of golf - in which case no concessions can happen.  If that is the case, then a player could have to mark a ball lying 6 inches from the hole to preserve correct sequence of play for the match play event.  The farce of that is one minor evidence of the foolishness of mixing two different types of golf competition.

[Dormie1360]

As far as playing a singles match in a foursome we do this quite a bit actually.  I have a match and invite a buddy to play along, opponent does the same thing to make up the foursome.  When you are playing your match on Saturday morning and the tee sheet is full, playing in a foursome works better than a twosome.

Usually, if I see a non opponent about to make a putt that could help me........even if it's his turn.......I usually will either not watch or tell him to wait until I putt.  But that's me.  Whether my opponent does this.......I really don't say anything.  Not that big of a deal to me.

As far as rules and committees,  the committee still sets the form of play and the conditions of competition.  If players knowingly agree to do otherwise, the players are DQ'd.  There are many decisions on this.  Also, quite often, players that I've played just don't understand the order of play rule under match play.  That's where a committee can come in and better educate participants which can help prevent any "issues" or claims during a match.

[KevCarter]

I would be interested in seeing the decisions stating Order of Play must be enforced. Here is the text: a. When Starting Play of Hole The side that has the honor at the first teeing ground is determined by the order of the draw. In the absence of a draw, the honor should be decided by lot. The side that wins a hole takes the honor at the next teeing ground. If a hole has been halved, the side that had the honor at the previous teeing ground retains it. b. During Play of Hole After both players have started play of the hole, the ball farther from the hole is played first. If the balls are equidistant from the hole or their positions relative to the hole are not determinable, the ball to be played first should be decided by lot. Exception: Rule 30-3b (best-ball and four-ball match play). Note: When it becomes known that the original ball is not to be played as it lies and the player is required to play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), the order of play is determined by the spot from which the previous stroke was made. When a ball may be played from a spot other than where the previous stroke was made, the order of play is determined by the position where the original ball came to rest. c. Playing Out of Turn If a player plays when his opponent should have played, there is no penalty, but the opponent may immediately require the player to cancel the stroke so made and, in correct order, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).  And a related decision: 10-1a/3 Players Agree Not to Tee Off in Prescribed Order to Save Time Q. In match play, A wins the 4th hole. On his way to the 5th tee, he returns to retrieve a club left at the 4th green and suggests that his opponent B play first to save time, which B does. In view of Rule 10-1a, have the players agreed to waive the Rules in breach of Rule 1-3? A. No. When starting play of a hole, a player who has the honor may invite his opponent to play first to save time, but if the opponent does so, the player has waived his right under Rule 10-1c to recall the stroke played out of turn. The opponent is under no obligation to accept the offer to tee off first. (Revised — Formerly 1-3/1)

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by KevCarter

It's not really up to the committee to enforce the rules of match play, nor is it up to you to be "strict."

Kevin

Hi Keven,

I really don't agree with the above.......way too general.  The committee can enforce rules under match play.  Decisions under 1-3 have examples as well as 2-1. If your context was strictly with regards to order of play, I'm okay with it to a point.  I'm not sure you could say, make an agreement where you would putt first on all the front nine holes, the opponent putts first on all the back nine holes. I do agree that an opponent may overlook a breach as long as R1-3 has not been breached.

[KevCarter]

I was replying to the context of the thread and its title where nothing was mentioned about an agreement to waive the rules, rather a question on ignorance of match play rules by the participants. Kevin

[Dormie1360]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

I'm assuming you are at a private club.  This really shouldn't just be your problem.  The Pro, Assistant, Tournament Chairman, etc., whoever is setting up and running the tournaments,(known as the "Committee" in golf rules), should be making sure everyone is playing by match play rules.

Order of play is probably one of the most important rules specific to match play.  If the Committee doesn't care, I'd consider not playing.

My 2 cents.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by cape cod beachfront golfer

The club I formally played at always had a good number of Match Play Tournaments during a season.

Given the nature of these knock out events, the problem is that you are playing too formally, when it doesn't really affect the match.

Perhaps this is why you played at this club formerly and not presently.

[WUTiger]

This is one for the rules committee. Decide what the club wants to do.

I play at a semi-private club with a lot of skilled and dedicated golfers, but the mantra at our place is "play ready golf".

IF you get into regional match-play tournaments, you need the rules committee to explain what to do. How much leeway does the rules committee have in adjusting match-play procedures to encourage ready golf ?

[KevCarter]

Originally Posted by WUTiger

This is one for the rules committee. Decide what the club wants to do.

I play at a semi-private club with a lot of skilled and dedicated golfers, but the mantra at our place is "play ready golf".

IF you get into regional match-play tournaments, you need the rules committee to explain what to do. How much leeway does the rules committee have in adjusting match-play procedures to encourage ready golf?

33-1. Conditions; Waiving Rule

The Committee must establish the conditions under which a competition is to be played.

The Committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf.