My Swing (clearwaterms)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Go back and reread my post "While there are people who can play golf successful with a rounded back, it's not ideal." So you consider the OP on the same level of natural talent as these pros? Apples and oranges comparing these pros to the OP to try to prove your point.

No it isn't. Why should someone have a "straight back" and then, when they reach some magical threshold (scratch?), switch to having a rounded back? Having a straight back, chin up, butt out is going to INHIBIT his ability express the talent he has.

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Back at you..................what are the advantages of having a rounded back? (Tiger's is NOT rounded there btw)  If the Op sets up with a rounded back, he can hit it like Jack? Wow.........**runs off to range to try it**

Already covered this. Click and read the URL above, Pablo.

Originally Posted by Pablo68

For average people starting at golf or working on their swings, they should try to be neutral in their setup and avoid extreme positions. The OP's back is very rounded; especially for a younger player.

So are you saying that rounding the back is an old man problem?

I disagree that his back is "very rounded." It's a bit more than we typically see but it's well within the range. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing him let his chin drop a little bit. It looks like he's still trying to keep it up high.

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I suppose if the OP had a overly strong grip, I could point to Lee Trevino's VERY strong grip and state 'nah, don't change your grip. Lee hits it well that way........'  Just because someone CAN play exceptionally well with an unorthodox setup doesn't mean the average player can.

Please do some reading on this. I'm okay with a wide variety of setup positions, from the super-slumpy to the fairly straight, but telling someone to go towards straight-back-chin-up-butt-out "just because"* is silly and counter-productive. If you want to discuss posture in general, the thread linked previously is the place to do it, not in this guy's My Swing thread.

I say "just because" because you've really not offered any reason why he should change his setup. What problems is it causing and what problems will it fix? You've called his setup "extreme" and "not ideal" without defining the extremes, the neutral, or the ideal. It seems like you read in an article somewhere that you should have a straight back, and chin up, and butt out (and I know you haven't said all of those things specifically, they just tend to carpool together if you get my drift) and so that's what you believe to be true. How about being able to look at the ball out of the middle of your eyes? How about the fact that the shoulders are rounded in at impact and not pulled back, so why would you set up with them pulled back, as that changes your radius to the golf ball? There are a lot more reasons to round your back slightly, have your chin down, and your hips a little bit further beneath you instead of sticking out backwards to thrust out your rear end. Read the thread, contribute there.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Back at you..................what are the advantages of having a rounded back?

As Erik posted go here http://thesandtrap.com/t/56069/good-golf-posture

I can't think of one good reason to have a straight back and the chin up.  Let's move this discussion to the posture thread

[Pablo68]

Okay guys; you win. The OP's back is fine and with it, he's in the best position to make progress on his swing. It's a very athletic position and reminds me of that line from Caddyshack from the Judge 'and I'm no slouch myself' to which Ty Webb replies 'Don't sell yourself short Judge; you're a tremendous slouch...........'

Later...............

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Okay guys; you win. The OP's back is fine and with it, he's in the best position to make progress on his swing. It's a very athletic position and reminds me of that line from Caddyshack from the Judge 'and I'm no slouch myself' to which Ty Webb replies 'Don't sell yourself short Judge; you're a tremendous slouch...........'

Later...............

I guess not everyone's cut out for actually discussing things.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

I guess not everyone's cut out for actually discussing things.

It's not like we are trying to be controversial, just looking at set-up positions.  Can't find many good players with straight cervical spines

http://thesandtrap.com/t/56069/good-golf-posture/54#post_742171

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by iacas

I guess not everyone's cut out for actually discussing things.

I love discussing things; just know that if everyone thought the same, there would be little to discuss.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I love discussing things; just know that if everyone thought the same, there would be little to discuss.

Great. The meta discussion isn't on topic, so that's that.

[clearwaterms]

Here is an updated swing.  I video'd this myself at the driving range.  The quality of the video is good but the camera I have is only 30fps.

I tried to straighten out my back.  I have an 8-iron and driver swing.  The 8 iron had a high ball flight and was straight.  I was hitting into a right to left wind so some of my ball drifted.

With the driver I had to use a smaller tee than I normally would but i couldn't find the correct size.  I tried very hard to isolate my hip turn to prevent over swinging and the driver flight was low (to be expected given the shorter tee height) but it was working for me.

I would love a few additional comments on this.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by clearwaterms

I tried to straighten out my back.  I have an 8-iron and driver swing.  The 8 iron had a high ball flight and was straight.  I was hitting into a right to left wind so some of my ball drifted.

After all that?! LOL

Here's what stands out that you can easily change, your head won't have to lower as much on the backswing to adjust you eye sight.  Keep things more consistent.  That and keep the arms straighter on the backswing, create as much space as you can from the left hand to the left shoulder.

[clearwaterms]

Originally Posted by mvmac

After all that?! LOL

Here's what stands out that you can easily change, your head won't have to lower as much on the backswing to adjust you eye sight.  Keep things more consistent.  That and keep the arms straighter on the backswing, create as much space as you can from the left hand to the left shoulder.

I appreciate the feedback, but I am not certain I understand,  my left hand (rear hand) and arm have to eventually fold in so that I can swing the club.  My right arm never bends until after impact with the ball.  so looking down my nose at the ball isn't a good idea?  I was under the impression that is what Hogan taught in his book.  Forgive me as I VERY much appreciate the advice, but I don't think I understand the two pieces of advice you are offering.

Please note that I originally started by hoping to improve my over the top movement.  Has the swing presented today shown any improvement on that front?  Looking at the swing that I posted on you tube frame by frame it appears that I am not "looping" under at the top of the swing.  I don't have any way to judge divot off of a mat, but looking at the water mark on the mat it appears that the divot would like point directly down the target line.

[senorchipotle]

OP, the instructor is trying to give you the backswing he feels most comfortable with. You need to find your own. Sure, it's more efficient to go back on plane and then come straight back down, but if that doesn't feel good to you, don't do it. All the backswing does is get you into the most comfortable position you, not the pro or anyone else, should be in in order to deliver the club on plane and with as much force as possible. The main problem I see is your hands are too high at impact, and your body isn't going to let you hurt it by sticking the clubhead deep in the ground. So drop the hands, and get more rotation on your downswing.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by clearwaterms

I appreciate the feedback, but I am not certain I understand,  my left hand (rear hand) and arm have to eventually fold in so that I can swing the club.  My right arm never bends until after impact with the ball.  so looking down my nose at the ball isn't a good idea?  I was under the impression that is what Hogan taught in his book.  Forgive me as I VERY much appreciate the advice, but I don't think I understand the two pieces of advice you are offering.

Please note that I originally started by hoping to improve my over the top movement.  Has the swing presented today shown any improvement on that front?  Looking at the swing that I posted on you tube frame by frame it appears that I am not "looping" under at the top of the swing.  I don't have any way to judge divot off of a mat, but looking at the water mark on the mat it appears that the divot would like point directly down the target line.

I would say the club shaft is too steep and the right arm is too far out on the downswing, some call this over the top or casting.  You want to have it look more like Lee Westwood on the right, note that right arm is more "in" and the club shaft is pointing almost at the ball.

The feel I gave you on the backswing, was just that, a feel.  You can't really make your arm trail arm straight.  What happens is the bend too much and lift and the next move is usually "over the top".  I'm just trying to help the root cause.  The next piece would be to have the hips go further forward by keeping the right knee flexed longer.

Off the top of my head I don't know what Hogan said in his book but you can see he's looking directly at the ball, technically it would be out of his foveal vision compared to his peripheral field.  If the nose gets in the way of the field of vision, we lose the ability for depth perception, which can cause compensations and make it difficult for our brain to calculate where we are relative to the ball.  This would potentially cause the golfer to once again adjust to see the golf ball out of both eyes and make the fastest adjustments during the course of the golf swing.  Getting the neck tilts right will also help the arms from lifting as much.

[clearwaterms]

mvmac, thank you - the additional photographs were very very helpful.

[Pablo68]

OP, you're setup looks a lot better except the head position but that's been pointed out already. It looks a bit uncomfortable and contrived.

One other thing based on that side view; double check your alignment on your hips, shoulders and feet. It appears something might be off there.

Good luck.