How Much Short Of The Hole Are The Guys You Play With?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by vo-man

Alow handicapper friend of mine told me once that mid to high handicappers should always pull one club longer than you think you need....caclulate the shot, then pull one club longer and swing easy.  So I applied that to my game and I stopped coming up short so much of the time.

Arnold Palmer says in one of his instruction videos that you should always shoot for the back of the green with your approach shot...percentages will put you shorter and mid green most of the time, and if you do end up long it's better than being short and in the sand or water.  I've got my wedges dialed in pretty well so hitting to the back of the green is something I only do when I'm farther out than a wedge.  If I'm on target, directionally, It usually works just at Arnie says it will.

If I played Bay Hill I'd take extra club. Where I play now, that's just simply a bad idea.

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

If I played Bay Hill I'd take extra club. Where I play now, that's just simply a bad idea.

Because AP was only talking about playing at Bay Hill, right?

I included my original post with the post to which I was responding. You probably didn't read my earlier post, where I indicated why it's typically a worse miss to go long at my course, but why not go back and read that now. Arnie referred to a short miss as hitting the sand or water. Sounds like a Florida course to me - not my situation. If it was, I'd take more club, like I said in my post.

[LovinItAll]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I included my original post with the post to which I was responding. You probably didn't read my earlier post, where I indicated why it's typically a worse miss to go long at my course, but why not go back and read that now. Arnie referred to a short miss as hitting the sand or water. Sounds like a Florida course to me - not my situation. If it was, I'd take more club, like I said in my post.

I read your earlier post, and I wrote earlier that there are certainly exceptions to 'take more club', whether it's on a particular green or most/all green complexes at a particular course.

I'm not arguing the results of the poll, either. If folks say that they rarely play with people who come up short, who am I to say differently? I'm not there. In addition, my reference to players who would benefit the most by drawing extra club didn't include 'better players', though I think they mis-club more often than they'd like to think. That includes me - it's not a slight against anyone.

Again. my experience is this: Most players do not hit enough club on their approach shots into greens. They play their perfect shot and they pull it off far less than they think. They'd be better off planning to be a little long so that when they don't hit the sweet spot - which will be a large percentage of the time - they'll be closer to the pin.

I think the poll results speak for themselves: Players think they hit the right club most of the time. If I polled the guys I play with, they'd probably say the same thing, even after trickling a shot on the front of the green when the pin's in the middle. I can hear it now: "I didn't hit that very solid, but it was the right club." Just like the other 10 approach shots they 'didn't hit very solid'.

Here's what I think the deal is: Let's say dude hits 8i 140. He knows he hits it 140 because he hit 15 out of 20 8i's on the range 140. He got in his groove with 8i and he thought (or was) dialed in...on the range. He gets on the course where he hits 8i 5 times during a round and his 75% range accuracy drops considerably. He will, of course, remember the 8i he hit 140 and stuck next to the pin, so he participates in choice-supportive bias, recalling the best results and discarding data from the total sampling that is important. We all do it at some time or another.

I created the poll to see what others thought about club selection, not to argue. Man, I wish you the very best on the golf course, and if you're dialed in better or if your position is different than mine, I have no problem with that.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

As long as you're on foot and carrying your bag, still not seeing the problem, other than it would get annoying to hear the excuses all day. I came up short once yesterday (flubbed a simple 110 yard wedge from the middle of the fairway - not a misjudged distance). I walked to the ball, quickly pitched the ball to

Now, if those guys are in carts, and it's paths only, then yes that would get extremely frustrating after awhile.

Let's just say that neither of these gentlemen had your short game.

They alternated between fat and bladed chips and pitches, and if there happened to be a bunker near the green, they found it.

[allin]

I would add that there is a pattern I often see. Higher handicap golfers under estimating the impact of in to the wind and up hill shots, over estimating the impact of downwind or down hill shots. Of course a short hitter like myself has to allow for more run out with my 3h from 190 than a longer player who is hitting a 6 iron from 170 after their longer drive. I once played a 2 man match play scramble,with a partner who hit his driver 15 - 25 yards farther than I. Every one was shocked at how many greens I hit,several in the 5 - 15 ft range. We had about the same handicap, if I hit the driver his distances I would beat him consistently. My point is that some of what you see is the less skilled player is often playing the more difficult approach shot in addition to having poorer skills . It is not surprising they have poorer results on approach shots.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bwdial

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

As long as you're on foot and carrying your bag, still not seeing the problem, other than it would get annoying to hear the excuses all day. I came up short once yesterday (flubbed a simple 110 yard wedge from the middle of the fairway - not a misjudged distance). I walked to the ball, quickly pitched the ball to < 5 feet and putted out. Not any slower or more painful than hitting out of the back trees or from the sod walled pot bunker pin high left.

Now, if those guys are in carts, and it's paths only, then yes that would get extremely frustrating after awhile.

Let's just say that neither of these gentlemen had your short game.

They alternated between fat and bladed chips and pitches, and if there happened to be a bunker near the green, they found it.

Didn't mean I always get up and down from short of the green, but the odds are better AT MY COURSE.

[stenvee]

A guy I play with is always taking his 64 degree lob wedge from 90 - 100 yards knocking it 150 yards up into the air and 40 yards forwards then looks at me in shock and disgust as I pull either my wedge or 9 iron and stick it on the green. I am guilty of clubbing for getting on the green and not taking into account the distance to the flag - best advice I was given was whatever club I thought take 1 more, so if I thought 8 iron take a 7 iron, it works well for me too.