Selling my clubs to buy Miura?

[Sai-Jin]

Mizuno MP68 is the first set of clubs I own... and I have 2 sets... 1 to collect and 1 to play.

But considering Miura's quality and it's regarded as a piece of art, I'm thinking of selling all of my Mizuno clubs

to help pay for the 2 sets of Miura small blades.

I'm still hesitant to do so, but if I think about it... most likely I won't be touching my Mizuno anymore and the 2nd set would probably worth nothing

in the future.

What do you guys think?

[xmanhockey7]

I don't understand why you need 1 set to collect.

[GaijinGolfer]

I think that if its something that would make you happy that its worth doing.  Im not sure that I understand why you need 1 set to play and another to collect either but hey man, its your dime and you can spend it however you wish.

[Sai-Jin]

I think it will, but I'm just a bit hesitant to get rid of my Mizuno clubs... they kinda have a nostalgic value since they are my very first set I played with, even though

Miuras have much higher value as pieces of art.

[Shorty]

  Sai-Jin said:

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

Miuras have much higher value as pieces of art.

They are golf clubs.

They are not "pieces of art"

You can buy them on ebay for a thousand dollars or so.

Their (lack of) advertising makes them seductive.

K.J. Choi has swapped his Miuras out for Ping, so he's not seing things the way you are.

You're talking about your Mizunos having sentimental value  and Miuras having value as art.

To many people, they are merely golf clubs. Tools.

You are probably better off making your own decisions rather than asking what others think.

I happen to think that someone who has a set of MP68s to "collect" is a little odd. But each to his own. These clubs are sold by the tens of thousands.

[Mr. Desmond]

Get rid of the MIzunos.

Get properly fit for the Miuras.

Do not collect irons.

[GaijinGolfer]

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

They are golf clubs.

They are not "pieces of art"

^ This I can agree with.  There is really nothing about Miuras that makes them pieces of art other than the hype and value that people place on them.  Miura doesnt do their own forging, then have Endo do it for them.  Miura-san does do his own grinding, which has only as much value as the user places on that.  They arent magic wands, just golf clubs.  Thats not to say they arent great clubs.  They are but they dont have the magical properties that some people place on them.

However, if Sai-jin really wants a set of them and doesnt think he will use his old Mizunos anymore, no reason to keep the Mizunos around.  Im sure he could find plenty of people who would be more than happy to take them off his hands and give them a good home.

[Mr. Desmond]

  GaijinGolfer said:

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

^ This I can agree with.  There is really nothing about Miuras that makes them pieces of art other than the hype and value that people place on them.  Miura doesnt do their own forging, then have Endo do it for them.  Miura-san does do his own grinding, which has only as much value as the user places on that.  They arent magic wands, just golf clubs.  Thats not to say they arent great clubs.  They are but they dont have the magical properties that some people place on them.

However, if Sai-jin really wants a set of them and doesnt think he will use his old Mizunos anymore, no reason to keep the Mizunos around.  Im sure he could find plenty of people who would be more than happy to take them off his hands and give them a good home.

Okay - this has been disproved.

Miura forges its own and Mr. Miura is in control of the process - now that doesn't mean he doesn't outsource work -- if he does, he is in control of the process - see Q&A; below.

Endo is a separate house. It does Bridgestone, other OEMs, Epon, etc.

There is a distinct difference between an Endo forging and Miura - Endo is clicky.

From Miuragolf.com

Q: Does MIura sub-contract any work?

A. Mr. Miura is in total control of the entire manufacturing process from the raw piece of metal to the finished product.

People are amazed that master craftsman Katsuhiro Miura , who is often referred to in the Japanese media as having the Hands of God , actually works hands-on in his factory every day. He passes down his knowledge and skills to his two sons, and even grinds the club heads himself as well.

[Golfingdad]

  GaijinGolfer said:

Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer

Im sure he could find plenty of people who would be more than happy to take them off his hands and give them a good home.

Here's a good home they could go to ... http://thesandtrap.com/t/60857/in-the-market-for-blades-any-suggestions/0_30

[Mr. Desmond]

MIura Tour:

and

[Sai-Jin]

@Golfingdad, thanks for the thread.

@shorty: Love your avatar... is that really your cat or are you the grumpy one? =P  (friendly question btw)

@Gaijinlover: Yea... I guess I'll try to get most of my money back for the brand new set of Mizunos and I'm going to try to sell my 5-PW set that I use.

Just that I have gone through a lot of trouble getting them, fit them, play with them etc... they are my very first set after all.

[GaijinGolfer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Okay - this has been disproved.

Miura forges its own and Mr. Miura is in control of the process - now that doesn't mean he doesn't outsource work -- if he does, he is in control of the process - see Q&A; below.

Endo is a separate house. It does Bridgestone, other OEMs, Epon, etc.

There is a distinct difference between an Endo forging and Miura - Endo is clicky.

From Miuragolf.com

Q: Does MIura sub-contract any work?

A. Mr. Miura is in total control of the entire manufacturing process from the raw piece of metal to the finished product.

People are amazed that master craftsman Katsuhiro Miura , who is often referred to in the Japanese media as having the Hands of God , actually works hands-on in his factory every day. He passes down his knowledge and skills to his two sons, and even grinds the club heads himself as well.

Nice press release.  Did you quote that from the Miura brochure?  As far as Miura being in control of the process, so is everyone else who outsources to Endo.  Endo builds them to your exact specifications and works with their customers to improve their designs and processes.  As for Endos feeling clicky, feel all has to do at which temperature you forge the clubs at.  Endo will forge them at whichever temp you want.

Miura does not forge their own heads or even product their own tooling.  Not sure where you were told they do but that source is wrong.

http://www.tourspecgolf.com/forum/topic/30647-question-on-endo-forging/

Quote:

I wouldn't compare Miura to Endo because Miura doesn't forge their own heads or produce their own tooling. Endo is a monster of a company, they make medical & automotive parts at a very large scale as well. Miura is mom and pops, solid grind house with great attention to detail though, the only company that chooses to use spin welded hosels at the moment.

People make the assumption that Endo clubs feel alike. Design, loft, and sole grind are huge contributing factors to feel. Even more so than material. You can have all the clubs made by Endo using the same material and method yet no two designs will feel the same. That is why they have not messed with the AF-302 over the years. It's pure feel is considered optimal to many.

Another thing is Endo can perform manufacturing processes that no one else can, they adjust the annealing/heat treatment process at will, incorporate different mixtures, produce some technologies that they own not the OEM. They hold the power when dealing with OEM's where as other factories have a basic process they do very well and the OEM will choose them if it fits their price and design. Endo collaborates with the OEM's on how to improve the product and sometimes OEM's have an issue they can't figure out so they have to go to Endo.

Just about any factory can produce clubs softer than the other at will. Just mess with the heat treatment, or add a copper underlay, or produce a design that keeps vibration in tune. It's not about who's the softest it's a combination of a dozen different factors that can appeal to the personal taste of the many.

[Golfingdad]

  Sai-Jin said:

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

@Golfingdad, thanks for the thread.

Of course.  Not sure if Beach is really interested in 68's, or if he's even interested in used clubs, but I just thought I'd let you know that there is at least one person on here looking.

[Sai-Jin]

  Golfingdad said:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Of course.  Not sure if Beach is really interested in 68's, or if he's even interested in used clubs, but I just thought I'd let you know that there is at least one person on here looking.

He already made a deal with his fitter. Oh and my clubs are "brand new" still in box and shrink wrapped. I wish I found Miura first before buying this 2nd MP68 set from retail store.

Btw, if those are your 2 children in your avatar, they are cute.

[Golfingdad]

  Sai-Jin said:

Originally Posted by Sai-Jin

He already made a deal with his fitter. Oh and my clubs are "brand new" still in box and shrink wrapped. I wish I found Miura first before buying this 2nd MP68 set from retail store.

Btw, if those are your 2 children in your avatar, they are cute.

Interesting ... I'll have to ask him about it.

And thanks!  The 'driver' is mine, the 'passenger' is his friend.

[ApocG10]

Miuras are not art. I get a kick out of all the people that think his forgings are somehow special.

My dad has owned a machine and steel fabrication shop since before I was born. My father and brother are both Metallurgists. I guarantee he could forge heads with the same steel that Miura uses, and they would be every bit as good and forgiving. Forging is such a simple and easy process, the only reason its generally more expensive than casted irons is because forging is a slower process.

Give me a set of Miura heads, and give my dad a couple of days to get down the exact specifications, and I could put a home forged set of blades in your hand with which you would not be able to choose, by look or feel, which are the true Miuras. It is very easy to do a rockwell test to figure out the EXACT steel that is used in their heads.

Ive actually been thinking of making my own forged putters.Just making 2 or 3, leaving them at the golf course to demo, and seeing where it goes from there. It's very easy to make a nice perimiter weighted putter with adjustable weights.

[ApocG10]

Oh, and I should have added this earlier, but its too late to edit now.

If you are playing off of an 11hc, what the hell are you doing with blades, let alone undersized blades. Get some cavity backs and watch your iron game progress.

[Mr. Desmond]

  ApocG10 said:

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Miuras are not art. I get a kick out of all the people that think his forgings are somehow special.

My dad has owned a machine and steel fabrication shop since before I was born. My father and brother are both Metallurgists. I guarantee he could forge heads with the same steel that Miura uses, and they would be every bit as good and forgiving. Forging is such a simple and easy process, the only reason its generally more expensive than casted irons is because forging is a slower process.

Give me a set of Miura heads, and give my dad a couple of days to get down the exact specifications, and I could put a home forged set of blades in your hand with which you would not be able to choose, by look or feel, which are the true Miuras. It is very easy to do a rockwell test to figure out the EXACT steel that is used in their heads.

Ive actually been thinking of making my own forged putters.Just making 2 or 3, leaving them at the golf course to demo, and seeing where it goes from there. It's very easy to make a nice perimiter weighted putter with adjustable weights.

Miura doesn't make a secret of its steel.

The art is in the design of the club and is a melding of math, knowledge, experience, imagination, and science.

Forging is a process.