2012 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by MSchott

You are just full of it. It was already planned that Phil and Keegan were not going to play in the afternoon.

Thats why Davis is such a bad Captain. You don't decide on Thursday the matches for both Friday and Saturday.

You adjust on how guys are playing...

Maybe he did make a change and sat Tiger and Stricker for Sat PM matches.

But if you make that move, you replace them with the hottest 2some, perhaps ever, on the American side. They blew out all comers!

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

What's funny is a lot of people keep bashing Phil and now some claim there could be a rift between DL3 and Phil. I pose this question... Did it ever occur to any of you that DL3 said multiple times he intended to sit everyone once so when the question was asked Phil stepped in to take some of the heat off of DL3? There is no way Phil and Keegan wouldn't have played if DL3 told them to play and especially Keegan being rookie at the ryder cup wouldn't have turned it down. Plus the team is supposed to be made up of some of the best players in the world so why would DL3 think whoever he was putting out there couldn't win. On top of all the fake controversy that's started it still doesn't change the fact the europeans out played the U.S. in the singles matches.

How many times do I have to say....WATCH THE PRESS CONFERENCE. Man.

Davis was clearly indicating he wanted to play Phil and Keegan... "but some guys didn't want to play"

Phil is an egotistical a**. AND Davis is the worst Captain of all-time.

[jimdandy]

Quote from Davis Love today:

"I guarantee Tiger Woods didn’t want to sit out. There was a lot of guys on our team that said, ‘Do not take Keegan and Phil out.’ But if you make them go play when they don’t want to play, they’re probably not going to play well.”

That is not a leader or a captain. You think Nicklaus or the like would accept that from a player??

They would say... "you guys are unbeatable, go get some rest, we need you this afternoon." End of story.

We need a captain with GUTS!!

[jimdandy]

And lastly, for tonight, how can Davis play Tiger last?

I still don't get that?

Arguably the greatest player ever, one of the great singles match players ever.

You know their best are going early, how can Davis NOT play him top 4???

This could be Davis's biggest mistake, he made tons!

I'm disgusted.

And Couples will be the same exact Captain if he is chosen. No guts, nice guy...

Where are the leaders, with balls!?

Put Tiger as Captain, and you have a guy who cares about nothing, nobody....but winning!

[Chas]

Calm down dandy. Anyone who said what you suggest In 795 would be a bigger idiot than anyone posting on this thread - which is saying something. The biggest Sunday collapse in the history of this venerable competition accounted for the European victory and was NOT the fault of Davis Love III. Anyone without an abiding hatred for DL3 and PM will recognize that reality. But dream on if it makes you feel better not to hold any of those wielding the sticks on the home stretch accountable. The single killer stroke if there was one: the long putt that resulted in the only birdie of the day on the 17th. Sayonara ....

[jimdandy]

Originally Posted by Chas

Calm down dandy. Anyone who said what you suggest In 795 would be a bigger idiot than anyone posting on this thread - which is saying something.

The biggest Sunday collapse in the history of this venerable competition accounted for the European victory and was NOT the fault of Davis Love III. Anyone without an abiding hatred for DL3 and PM will recognize that reality. But dream on if it makes you feel better not to hold any of those wielding the sticks on the home stretch accountable.

The single killer stroke if there was one: the long putt that resulted in the only birdie of the day on the 17th. Sayonara ....

Worst Captain in Ryder Cup history.

[Joakim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joakim

I will be writing a somewhat different column and I'll be sure to bring up the GC coverage. Action... Reaction.

Cracking my knuckles, fresh pot of Coffee and getting excited to come back at you Sobel.

Originally Posted by WWBDD

I think I smell a Pulitzer here.

Good luck with that.

Buttt eye dun gradeaded da sixed grate....

My name isn't Joakim, not looking for a Pulitzer on this article and what smells is the article from Jason Sobel.

Boycotting Golf Channel is my option as well as free speach. However there is such things as journalistic integrity. IMHO that article was unethical in the journalistic profession and I look forward to aggressively put forward my opinion of GC and Mr. Sobel.

Ahhh Shuckss, Ima so a skared.

I encourage everyone to read this pile of excrement . I'm referring to the writer and the article.. http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/

Peace I'm out.....

Boycotting Golf Channel...

[jimdandy]

i understand you disagree with his opinions. I do, with many on his list as well.

But what is unethical?

And why boycott golf channel?

[Nosevi]

Quote: I encourage everyone to read this pile of [COLOR=FF0000]excrement[/COLOR]. I'm referring to the writer and the article.. [URL=http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/]http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/ryder-cup-blame-game-12-myths-you-need-to-know/[/URL] Peace I'm out..... Boycotting Golf Channel...

Wow read it start to end and I've finally found someone who is my complete opposite, thinks of everything in reverse of me...... Only I'm not talking about the author of that article. Joakim, you strike me as a slightly angry man but I'm struggling to see what your problem is. I mean, clearly the RC and the loss means more to you than to Jim Furyk, and clearly DL3 was doing a shockingly bad job when you guys ended the team games 10-6 up. Phil lost his match because by applauding his opponent me helped him sink one on 18 and the US team to a man didn't play as a team (which is why they were so far ahead after the team matches). Gotcha. Truth is, over in Europe we were seriously worried before the singles. The only guy I saw that said the US should calm down, thought it would be close and Europe may even clinch it was Jack Nicklaus on British Sky TV who, when Butch Harmen said the US would win "easily", told him he disagreed, we had more stars (more class I think he said) and it would show through in the singles. He said he wanted the US to win, but wasn't sure they were going to. Guessing you know more about coming down the stretch than Jack, though, what does he know? The Ryder Cup is over, you guys are a tad disappointed (ok, understatement) but at the end of the day you got out played on Sunday. Pure and simple. The boys put huge pressure on your team by playing great golf and it was too much. How could they be back to 10-8, 10-9, all square ?!? We could loose this !!!!!!! They sewed the seed of doubt and the pressure eventually got to your guys. Only thing I would've done differently to DL3 would be to throw the first few matches and load the second half of the draw with my form players so they were taking on the weaker European boys. Still would have been wrong, mind, as the effect of the momentum swing would have taken the wind out of your second half players (as it did). Oh and I wouldn't have cut down all the rough, again something Jack and I see eye to eye on. He basically said he didn't agree with it, was within the rules but hardly in the spirit of the competition.

[Monte the Bear]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Wow read it start to end and I've finally found someone who is my complete opposite, thinks of everything in reverse of me...... Only I'm not talking about the author of that article. Joakim, you strike me as a slightly angry man but I'm struggling to see what your problem is. I mean, clearly the RC and the loss means more to you than to Jim Furyk, and clearly DL3 was doing a shockingly bad job when you guys ended the team games 10-6 up. Phil lost his match because by applauding his opponent me helped him sink one on 18 and the US team to a man didn't play as a team (which is why they were so far ahead after the team matches). Gotcha.

Truth is, over in Europe we were seriously worried before the singles. The only guy I saw that said the US should calm down, thought it would be close and Europe may even clinch it was Jack Nicklaus on British Sky TV who, when Butch Harmen said the US would win "easily", told him he disagreed, we had more stars (more class I think he said) and it would show through in the singles. He said he wanted the US to win, but wasn't sure they were going to. Guessing you know more about coming down the stretch than Jack, though, what does he know?

The Ryder Cup is over, you guys are a tad disappointed (ok, understatement) but at the end of the day you got out played on Sunday. Pure and simple. The boys put huge pressure on your team by playing great golf and it was too much. How could they be back to 10-8, 10-9, all square ?!? We could loose this !!!!!!! They sewed the seed of doubt and the pressure eventually got to your guys.

Only thing I would've done differently to DL3 would be to throw the first few matches and load the second half of the draw with my form players so they were taking on the weaker European boys. Still would have been wrong, mind, as the effect of the momentum swing would have taken the wind out of your second half players (as it did). Oh and I wouldn't have cut down all the rough, again something Jack and I see eye to eye on. He basically said he didn't agree with it, was within the rules but hardly in the spirit of the competition.

Quite. Saturday night at 10-6, I thought we were looking at best a 18-10 loss, going on the way we played. Amazed at the hostility towards Mickelson and DL3. Thank God they have some class.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by jimdandy

i understand you disagree with his opinions. I do, with many on his list as well.

But what is unethical?

And why boycott golf channel?

Because several statements were outright lies . I'm still going through this but here is two examples..

1) JS quote re, Bubba Watson and Webb Simpson never even saw the 15th hole in their two victories.

They lost on Sat morning that finished on the 18th.

2) JS quote "Bang on Mickelson all you’d like for essentially removing himself from a fourth straight match – and taking Bradley with him. (And yes, I’ve heard the sentiment which claims the rookie should have teamed with Woods in the afternoon. Nice thought. Other than the fact that they never practiced together, never played together and may not even know each other."

Fact... he was wrong on is Tiger and KB...the were in fact paired together at PGA/Ocean course and got along quite well during the pairing. KB even said after the one round that it was one of the best rounds he's seen in his life (tiger's round). Also DL3 had went to him and asked if he would play with Tiger and his eyes lit up and said something like it would be fantastic. This was on GC so he should have known it. Tiger also had a list of players he would like to play with and Keegan was on it.

Also I didn''t like watching the days up to and through the Ryder cup. The guest commentators were all Europe players, Nick Faldo, Colin Montgomery, David Feherety, Frank Nobilo and several other past Euro guests, all biased to Europe.

There were NO USA PGA golf guest commentators???? Only the anchors. I got so sick of their biased opinions, British accents, and advice of how Europe needs to beat US, I finally had to change the channel. Why did every postgame match have only Europe input.This maybe petty and I'm not a hater but as a fan with Ryder in America they should have brought some US faces to

their broadcast.

Again, the biggest problem I had was the outright lies or misinformation from a Journalist to back your facts. There is many other contorted, lies and misinformation.

Blogs are one thing, Journalism is suppose to report the facts and must be founded on integrity. GC broadcasts should also be representing the USA at least par to OUR COMPETITORS.

[Nosevi]

Quite. Saturday night at 10-6, I thought we were looking at best a 18-10 loss, going on the way we played. Amazed at the hostility towards Mickelson and DL3. Thank God they have some class.

+1 .... No plus a whole heap more! And the stuff about DL3 being too nice to be a captain, need someone with fire etc etc. You mean just like Olli?!? Not like he inspired his team or anything, is it now? The boys dug deep and when the chips were down Jack was right - they had too much class and the weight of expectation was too much for the US guys (all of who care a darn sight more about all this than any of us). I'm not criticising the US team, that's just what happened. This is going to be the most patronising thing I have ever written, but to heck with it, I'll write it anyway. Seriously disappointed in some of the US reaction. Frankly it's embarrassing, and I speak as someone who grew up over there. You got beat. That's it. Come two Scotland in a couple of years and take the cup from us. I won't like it but I will live with it.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Joakim

Because several statements were outright lies.

Also I didn''t like watching the days up to and through the Ryder cup. The guest commentators were all Europe players, Nick Faldo, Colin Montgomery, David Feherety, Frank Nobilo and several other past Euro guests, all biased to Europe.

Frank's a Kiwi - not European. Fehety is now a US citizen.

[Nosevi]

Frank's a Kiwi - not European. Fehety is now a US citizen.

Oh stop it, you're stealing his thunder. Who did we have on Sky? Butch Harmen who coaches two of your team. Special guest just before play? Jack Nicklaus. It's just what the broadcasters do these days. And in what way were they biased? Did they say that Europe would win, or some such other nonsense? I actually found Butch Harmen to be totally unbiased, Monty to be seriously harsh on our boys when they were down and Jack (about the only bloke on the planet who publically called it right) to be a tad pro European in their assessments. What's wrong with our accents, anyway?

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Wow read it start to end and I've finally found someone who is my complete opposite, thinks of everything in reverse of me...... Only I'm not talking about the author of that article. Joakim, you strike me as a slightly angry man but I'm struggling to see what your problem is. I mean, clearly the RC and the loss means more to you than to Jim Furyk, and clearly DL3 was doing a shockingly bad job when you guys ended the team games 10-6 up. Phil lost his match because by applauding his opponent me helped him sink one on 18 and the US team to a man didn't play as a team (which is why they were so far ahead after the team matches). Gotcha.

Truth is, over in Europe we were seriously worried before the singles. The only guy I saw that said the US should calm down, thought it would be close and Europe may even clinch it was Jack Nicklaus on British Sky TV who, when Butch Harmen said the US would win "easily", told him he disagreed, we had more stars (more class I think he said) and it would show through in the singles. He said he wanted the US to win, but wasn't sure they were going to. Guessing you know more about coming down the stretch than Jack, though, what does he know?

The Ryder Cup is over, you guys are a tad disappointed (ok, understatement) but at the end of the day you got out played on Sunday. Pure and simple. The boys put huge pressure on your team by playing great golf and it was too much. How could they be back to 10-8, 10-9, all square ?!? We could loose this !!!!!!! They sewed the seed of doubt and the pressure eventually got to your guys.

Only thing I would've done differently to DL3 would be to throw the first few matches and load the second half of the draw with my form players so they were taking on the weaker European boys. Still would have been wrong, mind, as the effect of the momentum swing would have taken the wind out of your second half players (as it did). Oh and I wouldn't have cut down all the rough, again something Jack and I see eye to eye on. He basically said he didn't agree with it, was within the rules but hardly in the spirit of the competition.

With all due respect, I'm a USA fan (I think to win the cup we need to bring more of that.) The Brits surely do and that's why we get our butt kicked.

I respect jounalism integrity and frankly I have never read an article that so blatantly distorted the facts.

I'm also a huge Tiger fan. Their has been so much unjustified hate from journalist and fans. If Tiger had done missed a 2 up lead putt, stolen the best partner prospect (admitted by DL3), acted anyway inappropriately he would be getting slammed. Phil gets away with murder and gets a free pass from the media, ie Oakland hills 2004 when he shanked several pivitol shots. (I was there, bay area born and raised).

No animosity, I agree with your last paragraph and it were my thoughts at the time. Blogs can be bring opinions, excuses and misinformation. Journalism should not hold in a higher regard.

Seriously, have you ever read a column based on lies and such bias? Maybe ones that are written about Tiger.

If Phil and DL3 can't get criticism than how can you slam others. Or maybe we should just say, they had the better team, we never had a chance, DL3 did everything right and lets try the same approach next year.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Monte the Bear

This is going to be the most patronising thing I have ever written, but to heck with it, I'll write it anyway. Seriously disappointed in some of the US reaction. Frankly it's embarrassing, and I speak as someone who grew up over there. You got beat. That's it. Come two Scotland in a couple of years and take the cup from us. I won't like it but I will live with it.This is going to be the most patronising thing I have ever written, but to heck with it, I'll write it anyway. Seriously disappointed in some of the US reaction . Frankly it's embarrassing, and I speak as someone who grew up over there. You got beat. That's it. Come two Scotland in a couple of years and take the cup from us. I won't like it but I will live with it.

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Oh stop it, you're stealing his thunder. Who did we have on Sky? Butch Harmen who coaches two of your team. Special guest just before play? Jack Nicklaus. It's just what the broadcasters do these days. And in what way were they biased? Did they say that Europe would win, or some such other nonsense?

I actually found Butch Harmen to be totally unbiased, Monty to be seriously harsh on our boys when they were down and Jack (about the only bloke on the planet who publically called it right) to be a tad pro European in their assessments.

What's wrong with our accents, anyway?

Seriously, if Britian had all Americans as commentators the whole week leading up to a Ryder in Europe what kind of reaction would your network get?

Seriously, Wouldn't there be some criticism or back lash from such a collapse?

Seriously, the most patronising thing you have ever written?

Honestly, I like your accents... But... hearing only them on our TV station as commentators for the week prior and through the RC got to me, especially seeing the pouting tones on Sat and jubilation on Sun. eve. Not Brits fault, Golf Channel for having no USA golfing analyst throughout.

Jack was right expressing his concern about our inexperience vs Europe experience, our bad for not throwing out our experience in the first 44 matches.

Congrats Europe, it is written in history as the best comeback ever

[Nosevi]

[QUOTE name="Monte the Bear" url="http://thesandtrap.com/t/62332/2012-ryder-cup-discussion-thread/792#post_774212"] This is going to be the most patronising thing I have ever written, but to heck with it, I'll write it anyway. Seriously disappointed in some of the US reaction. Frankly it's embarrassing, and I speak as someone who grew up over there. You got beat. That's it. Come two Scotland in a couple of years and take the cup from us. I won't like it but I will live with it.This is going to be the most patronising thing I have ever written, but to heck with it, I'll write it anyway. Seriously disappointed in some of the US reaction . Frankly it's embarrassing, and I speak as someone who grew up over there. You got beat. That's it. Come two Scotland in a couple of years and take the cup from us. I won't like it but I will live with it.[/QUOTE] Seriously, if Britian had all Americans as commentators the whole week leading up to a Ryder in Europe what kind of reaction would your network get? Seriously, Wouldn't there be some criticism or back lash from such a collapse? Seriously, the most patronising thing you have ever written? Honestly, I like your accents... But... hearing only them on our TV station as commentators for the week prior and through the RC got to me, especially seeing the pouting tones on Sat and jubilation on Sun. eve. Not Brits fault, Golf Channel for having no USA golfing analyst throughout. Jack was right expressing his concern about our inexperience vs Europe experience, our bad for not throwing out our experience in the first 44 matches. Congrats Europe, it is written in history as the best comeback ever

Ok, some fair points. Yes, if we had only US commentators I would be surprised, even disappointed. If Europe had collapsed, no I'll rephrase, when Europe collapsed there was back lash, sure. I think, and this is just my opinion, directing it at Phil's sporting gesture, DL3's lack of quality or Jim Furyk in general is absurd. I've read posts that have hugely criticised Phil while saying Tiger was just unlucky. Lets just check the points tally for a mo, shall we. I don't usually write anything patronising and that was just a little so.... I do get the annoyance with the broadcaster thing and have no idea why your network did that. All internet debate, banter and ribbing aside, I'm not surprised that there's criticism of the US team from you lot - I don't know many people who like to win and hate loosing more than the American public - I'm just baffled about where it's directed. I do think the US team lost the cup, our boys put the pressure on and the expectation was just too much for some of them. That sounds like a criticism but it isn't. When Kaymer was on 17 teeing off, everything on the line, water everywhere, our commentator's comment summed it up for me. He said "I don't know how they can even take the club back!" I have respect for all the guys out there because quite frankly I don't think I could have done.

[Joakim]

Originally Posted by Nosevi

Ok, some fair points. Yes, if we had only US commentators I would be surprised, even disappointed.

If Europe had collapsed, no I'll rephrase, when Europe collapsed there was back lash, sure. I think, and this is just my opinion, directing it at Phil's sporting gesture, DL3's lack of quality or Jim Furyk in general is absurd. I've read posts that have hugely criticised Phil while saying Tiger was just unlucky. Lets just check the points tally for a mo, shall we.

I don't usually write anything patronising and that was just a little so....

I do get the annoyance with the broadcaster thing and have no idea why your network did that.

All internet debate, banter and ribbing aside, I'm not surprised that there's criticism of the US team from you lot - I don't know many people who like to win and hate loosing more than the American public - I'm just baffled about where it's directed. I do think the US team lost the cup, our boys put the pressure on and the expectation was just too much for some of them. That sounds like a criticism but it isn't. When Kaymer was on 17 teeing off, everything on the line, water everywhere, our commentator's comment summed it up for me. He said "I don't know how they can even take the club back!" I have respect for all the guys out there because quite frankly I don't think I could have done.

Kudos mate,

Honestly, I can't put all the blame on Phil. Just seeing the partisan European Ryders makes me jealous. You have a fantastic crowd over there, great enthusiam. But none of their players would applaud one of our players over there. Obviously this didn't lose the Ryder cup for us.

Furyk, Sobel GC article mentioned two choked events, it was actually 3, again slanted reporting. More importantly he had the lowest points .5 in 2010 Ryder. The lowest point producer in points total should not be a captain pick. http://www.rydercup.com/2010/usa/scoring/individualpoints.cfm

DL3- To many mistakes to mention. Everyone states well he was 10-6 going into Sunday, that just shows how many good players he had not how he managed. If he was 11-5 it would have been a different story.  You don't lead the final round with inexperienced players. When you do things that have never been done in Ryder history (and he did many) you are taking a chance.

He's the manager with on paper a better team, a course you set up and home field advantage. Sorry but blame goes to DL3. He's a nice guy and nice guys finish last. Poulter said before Ryder he wants to kill us and have a beer after the match. Great attitude, that's why he is a winner.

Tiger's points. Again bad management, What's the defination of stupidity is doing the same thing that didn't work. He was 3-1 in 2010 and tied for most USA Ryder.

Congrats, bottom line I'm a big fan and this one really hurt.