Hole in One?

[MEfree]

Which of the following do you consider a hole in one?

1.  A player hits his tee shot overhanging the lip of the hole and a gust of wind blows it into the hole 12 seconds after he reached his ball.

2.  Same as 1 except he marked his ball after 9 seconds.  Then was asked by a group member to move his mark.  After moving back his mark and replacing his ball to what appeared to the naked eye as the exact location it was originally, a gust of wind blows the ball into the hole before the player has addressed his putt.

3.  A player hits his ball 20 feet above the hole on a fast, slopping green.  After marking, cleaning and replacing his ball, a gust of wind moves his ball while he is lining his putt up from the opposite side of the hole.  The ball rolls downhill for 20 feet into the hole.

[Jeffrey71]

I would have to say none of the above. But, if these were the only choices or if it happend to me I would say #1. Even though it was 12 seconds and I believe the alotted time frame is 10 seconds, the player did not mark their ball. Granted all of these scenarios would be scored as a 1, it seems a stretch to claim 2 and 3 are a true hole in one. #1 would seem the closest situation to claim a hole in one. Anyway you look at it I'll take a 1 on a par 3 any day of the week.

[David in FL]

Doesn't really matter what any of us consider..... The rules are clear. None of those resulted in a holed shot. The ball is replaced in each case and the next stroke is played.

[wadesworld]

None of the above, though if it was in a friendly match, I wouldn't have a problem with someone considering #1 a hole-in-one.  It doesn't affect me, so if he wants to tell his friends he got a hole-in-one, I'm not going to argue.

[Jeffrey71]

  David in FL said:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Doesn't really matter what any of us consider.....

The rules are clear. None of those resulted in a holed shot. The ball is replaced in each case and the next stroke is played.

I was discussing it with a friend, and he said the same thing. I love that I don't know everything about this great game.

[MEfree]

  David in FL said:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Doesn't really matter what any of us consider.....

The rules are clear. None of those resulted in a holed shot. The ball is replaced in each case and the next stroke is played.

Are you sure about that?  I had a ball move on the green in a rules question recently and I thought I was told that if I did not cause it to move, then it was not replaced and instead played from the new position http://thesandtrap.com/t/62403/ball-moved-after-marking-replacing-on-green-before-being-addressed#post_772588

[hitnrun]

  wadesworld said:

None of the above, though if it was in a friendly match, I wouldn't have a problem with someone considering #1 a hole-in-one.  It doesn't affect me, so if he wants to tell his friends he got a hole-in-one, I'm not going to argue.

This seems to be reasonable to me.

[David in FL]

  MEfree said:

Are you sure about that?  I had a ball move on the green in a rules question recently and I thought I was told that if I did not cause it to move, then it was not replaced and instead played from the new position [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/62403/ball-moved-after-marking-replacing-on-green-before-being-addressed#post_772588]http://thesandtrap.com/t/62403/ball-moved-after-marking-replacing-on-green-before-being-addressed#post_772588[/URL]

You know, now I'm not so sure. Damn!

[MEfree]

  David in FL said:

Originally Posted by David in FL

You know, now I'm not so sure.

Damn!

Frustrating, isn`t it...I played tournament golf in high school/college, am above average intelligence, graduated law school/passed the CA Bar, try my hardest to know and play by the rules and I have still found a number of instances this season where I made a mistake or did not know the correct rule.

According to this decision, I think #2 & #3 are officially holes in one.  This strikes me as odd.

18-1/12

Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green and the ball is at rest. Before the player addresses the ball, a sudden gust of wind blows the ball farther from the hole. The player plays the ball from its new position. Is that correct?

A. Yes. Wind is not an outside agency - see Definition of "Outside Agency." Accordingly, Rule 18-1 does not apply.

[Rulesman]

  MEfree said:

Originally Posted by MEfree

Which of the following do you consider a hole in one?

1.  A player hits his tee shot overhanging the lip of the hole and a gust of wind blows it into the hole 12 seconds after he reached his ball.

2.  Same as 1 except he marked his ball after 9 seconds.  Then was asked by a group member to move his mark.  After moving back his mark and replacing his ball to what appeared to the naked eye as the exact location it was originally, a gust of wind blows the ball into the hole before the player has addressed his putt.

3.  A player hits his ball 20 feet above the hole on a fast, slopping green.  After marking, cleaning and replacing his ball, a gust of wind moves his ball while he is lining his putt up from the opposite side of the hole.  The ball rolls downhill for 20 feet into the hole.

1.

16-2 Ball Overhanging Hole

When any part of the ball overhangs the lip of the hole , the player is allowed enough time to reach the hole without unreasonable delay and an additional ten seconds to determine whether the ball is at rest. If by then the ball has not fallen into the hole , it is deemed to be at rest. If the ball subsequently falls into the hole , the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke , and must add a penalty stroke to his score for the hole; otherwise, there is no penalty under this Rule.

2 & 3

18-1/12

Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Q. A player replaces his ball on the putting green and the ball is at rest. Before the player addresses the ball, a sudden gust of wind blows the ball farther from the hole. The player plays the ball from its new position. Is that correct?

A. Yes. Wind is not an outside agency - see Definition of "Outside Agency." Accordingly, Rule 18-1 does not apply.

[MEfree]

  Rulesman said:

Originally Posted by Rulesman

1.

16-2 Ball Overhanging Hole

When any part of the ball overhangs the lip of the hole, the player is allowed enough time to reach the hole without unreasonable delay and an additional ten seconds to determine whether the ball is at rest. If by then the ball has not fallen into the hole, it is deemed to be at rest. If the ball subsequently falls into the hole, the player is deemed to have holed out with his last stroke, andmust add a penalty stroke to his score for the hole; otherwise, there is no penalty under this Rule.

2 & 3

18-1/12

Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Q.A player replaces his ball on the putting green and the ball is at rest. Before the player addresses the ball, a sudden gust of wind blows the ball farther from the hole. The player plays the ball from its new position. Is that correct?

A.Yes. Wind is not an outside agency - see Definition of "Outside Agency." Accordingly, Rule 18-1 does not apply.

Thanks...So 1 is definitely not considered a hole in one and 3 is definitely considered a hole in one, but what about 2?

18-1/12 would seem to allow for it to be a hole in one, but this seems against the spirit of 16-2...by marking a ball that is overhanging the hole after 9 seconds, then putting it back in the same place for 2+ seconds it seems like the player is getting more than the 10 seconds allotted.  Also, while we may all try to put a ball back in the EXACT spot, my guess is that even if it appears to the naked eye to be in the exact spot, that if you examined it with a microscope, it is routinely off by an extremely small amount (especially after a marked has been moved and then replaced