My Swing (RPMPIRE)

[RPMPIRE]

I've been Playing Golf for: 6 years

My current handicap index or average score is: 12.2 (haven't posted since October 2010)

My typical ball flight is: Straight to a slight push fade

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Thin shots and Push Slices

I haven't been able to hit a golf ball since January 2011 because my second son was born (11.5 months after my first kid) and I suffered a herniated disc in June. I have been able to take some practice back swings, but not really full motion. I just checked my positions each time. This is my first time going to the range since January of last year.

Immediately, I noticed my knees aren't flexed as much, but it's also what feels comfortable. Also, the club does look laid off at the top - A4. I did have some shanks and really bad push fades that night, but I didn't get those on film. I only filmed part of my range session.

Most of the swings I made are easy swings so I don't risk reaggravating anything. Please feel free to comment.

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Videos:

56 Degree Wedge:

8 Iron:

Driver:

[JetFan1983]

Wow, really nice swing you got despite the long layoff!

Hopefully Mike and/or Erik double checks my work here, but this is what I see:

Add some neck tilt at address here so you can see the ball in your central vision like Rory does here (A little more knee flex and some feet flare out couldn't hurt either).

Keep the left arm-left pectoral connection on the takeaway so you can swing more on the arc, like Tiger here. Less out and away from you.

On the downswing, your right foot comes up really early in the swing and it looks like your right knee is kicking in hard towards the left knee. I'd suggest trying to feel more ankle rolling (right foot onto its instep, left foot onto its outstep) and extending the right leg more. Flaring out your right foot at address can help keep this foot down for longer too -- like 25 degrees or so.

In the above, when you flare out the right foot like this, you really help promote the proper movement of the right leg and foot on the downswing. Definitely helps this issue. But here's what I'm talking about:

See how the knee kicks in a lot here? Tucking the butt more through the strike can help with this too.

All in all, it looks solid though despite the lay off. I'd like to see some face-on stuff just to see wrist angles per your push fade. I'd guess that you need to feel a little bit of wrist bowing to close the face relative to the path more to get less of a fade and more of a draw curve on the ball.

Hopefully Mike or Erik double checks my work. But tucking the butt more and banking the feet more would relieve some stress on the back because you wouldn't be rotating as aggressively. Or something to that effect.

[mchepp]

Is the range Pin-High? I used to go there quite a bit when I lived in Santa Clara. I will offer some thoughts on your swing later.

[RPMPIRE]

Thanks for the critique, jetfan. I did notice an out-to-in swing path. For now it was an improvement from my swing a while back. Before, my hands would get too deep and that never really resulted in any good shots. My right foot has always been a problem. I'll definitely flare out my right foot the next time I go to the range. I'll also get a face on view, which I did forget to do this time. Mchepp, this is actually the Pleasanton Golf Center. I'm moving back to the city tomorrow, but I'm going to miss the ranges in the trivalley area because they have grass ranges at no extra charge. Closest course to me there is Harding Park but too bad their range is some customized astroturf.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

Thanks for the critique, jetfan. I did notice an out-to-in swing path. For now it was an improvement from my swing a while back. Before, my hands would get too deep and that never really resulted in any good shots.

Still, it would be interesting to see what it looks like from DTL. I assume the bad shots that result for you is a bigger push-fade? If so, you likely are losing the flat left wrist, in which case, feeling some palmar flexion (but not actually palmar flexing) would close the face relative to the path enough to either lessen the fade or to turn it into a push draw. As long as you aren't extending too early, which it appears that you aren't (you keep your head on the wall pretty nicely if I recall), the ball flight should improve.

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

My right foot has always been a problem. I'll definitely flare out my right foot the next time I go to the range. I'll also get a face on view, which I did forget to do this time.

Yea, ultimately, the flare out is to help promote a better lateral shift and overall move of the lower body.

Try out this drill too:

Remember, since your head is staying on the wall, I'd monitor what the wrist angles are doing when the unwanted excessive push fade shows up. Like I said, the face needs to be more closed relative to the path and the flat left wrist is the key to achieving that. Feeling a little wrist arching should achieve this, if you are seeing too much of that fade while doing the drill, because you'd be maintaining the flying wedge for a lot longer into the follow-through. Again though, it'd be interesting to see face-on to confirm this. I'm just basing this comment on your push-fade ball flight.

PS- I can only speak for myself here, but I find that drills that pre-set the hips forward puts some added stress on my hip flexor, so make sure you are warmed up before doing it. I wouldn't do the drill for hours upon end -- I'd make each swing count and do a lot of practice swings in between.

[RPMPIRE]

Thanks, jetfan. I'll definitely work on these the next time I go to the range, which is who knows when that will be. I've been trying these drills in a mirror and I can feel the difference in flaring out the right foot.

My mishits that night were exactly as you described - severe push fades. Some would start about 45 degrees to the right and keep slicing. It didn't happen too often, thankfully. My earlier problems were early extensions, but I've been using the "Head Steady" key in 5SK and so far that's been doing pretty well in alleviating the early extension.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

On the downswing, your right foot comes up really early in the swing and it looks like your right knee is kicking in hard towards the left knee. I'd suggest trying to feel more ankle rolling (right foot onto its instep, left foot onto its outstep) and extending the right leg more. Flaring out your right foot at address can help keep this foot down for longer too -- like 25 degrees or so.

I've read some things recently that have made me rethink this tip. I wouldn't do it. Sorry about that.

[jd924]

Lots of good advice from Jetsfan all stuff I saw that looked like you could "fix". As for the right foot banking, I really wouldnt make that a number priority piece. Plenty of really great ball strikers dont keep the heal down at impact (Donald, Schwartzel, O'Haire, YE Yang). On the contrary, most of them on the tour do (Tiger, Rory, Sergio). Thats why I say make that a clean up piece after you figured out the other pieces.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I've read some things recently that have made me rethink this tip. I wouldn't do it. Sorry about that.

JetFan - I saw this comment and was thinking about it. I'm really not qualified to make many swing suggestions, but I plan on posting my own soon and want to try to help others so I don;t feel like I'm freeloading. I've been told by a pro that turning the right foot (for a righty) out like 5-10 degrees is a good idea because it doesn't restrict your hip turn and cause tension and lack of stability as you load on to the right side during the backswing. However, flaring out "too much" - like 25 degrees - will cause too much hip rotation, promoting a loss of torque in the upper body, and a concomitant loss in power. I bought this book a while back called "Swing Like a Pro" where a biomechanics guy and a pro instructor created a composite of 100 to PGA and LPGA pros. In the "setup" chapter of their book, they actually suggest a right foot completely parallel to the clubface - zero turn at all - to stop the loss of torque (I believe it was their reason. I'll need to look it up now :( )

Anyway, I think I've seen others here mentioning how beneficial it is to have the right foot flared out considerably. Am I wrong here??? BTW - I'm originally from NY and it must be hard to be a Jet Fan right now. That thing with Rex Ryan and his tattoo of Mark Sanchez's jersey on his back made my skin crawl. That team is in shambles right now. I thought they were ready to take on my Giants in a Super Bowl soon. Looks like we're both waiting now!

RPMPIRE - Like the swing a lot. It looks to me like the "easy" swings you're taking are pretty confident and can generate ample power to have a solid game. I'd take the ball flight on several of the shots you showed us any day. I do agree that your arms seem to come away from your chest a bit too much on the takeaway, which can cause a push fade. Probably even worse if you swung "harder." The last driver swing really seemed to demonstrate that. I used to do that same motion severely, and I subconsciously created a compensation for it which resulted in horrible inconsistency and actually more pull hooks. Another BTW - the driving range off the 580(?) in Dublin was where I started practicing golf. I picked it up in September of 2010 after playing only sparsely many years earlier, and I had a 9-day vacation at my brother-in-law's house in Livermore for Thanksgiving. Must've hit 1500 balls that week there. Good luck! - MJM

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I've read some things recently that have made me rethink this tip. I wouldn't do it. Sorry about that.

JetFan - I saw this comment and was thinking about it. I'm really not qualified to make many swing suggestions, but I plan on posting my own soon and want to try to help others so I don;t feel like I'm freeloading. I've been told by a pro that turning the right foot (for a righty) out like 5-10 degrees is a good idea because it doesn't restrict your hip turn and cause tension and lack of stability as you load on to the right side during the backswing. However, flaring out "too much" - like 25 degrees - will cause too much hip rotation, promoting a loss of torque in the upper body, and a concomitant loss in power. I bought this book a while back called "Swing Like a Pro" where a biomechanics guy and a pro instructor created a composite of 100 to PGA and LPGA pros. In the "setup" chapter of their book, they actually suggest a right foot completely parallel to the clubface - zero turn at all - to stop the loss of torque (I believe it was their reason. I'll need to look it up now :( )

Anyway, I think I've seen others here mentioning how beneficial it is to have the right foot flared out considerably. Am I wrong here??? BTW - I'm originally from NY and it must be hard to be a Jet Fan right now. That thing with Rex Ryan and his tattoo of Mark Sanchez's jersey on his back made my skin crawl. That team is in shambles right now. I thought they were ready to take on my Giants in a Super Bowl soon. Looks like we're both waiting now!

Sorry, I was only referring to rolling his left foot onto its outstep to help promote the lateral hip shift on the downswing. Everything else I still stand by. A player rolling his front foot onto his outstep is a commonality among some good players (Fowler and Stricker come to mind off the top of my head), but I've recently been exposed to a new idea that says this can be detrimental to one's swing, especially if done incorrectly. The pressures in the front foot on the downswing need to be in the ball area or even toes, and rolling said foot onto its outstep runs the risk of the golfer having too much weight onto his heels through the strike.

As for foot flare out, I think its great, and as you mentioned, does allow the hips to turn more comfortably. It gives you a little bit more balance too. I think most importantly it turns the knees a bit more outward, which really helps promote the proper lower body downswing sequencing.

Flaring them out to 25 degrees is okay, especially if the foot it really coming up early. Remember, I suggested that change to help fix the way his right leg kind of kicks towards the golf ball on the downswing -- which is a common problem if you look at other swing threads here.

Granted, I myself have overdone feet flare out... but that was when I had the back foot turned out some 45 degrees

So yea, I wasn't quite clear enough on what I decided to "remove" from my original advice on the thread. And, I think its great when unqualified people make suggestions... I'm arguably one of them to be honest. I think fleshing out some ideas on another person's swing thread can help both parties to some degree. And, if we say something grossly incorrect, sometimes someone pops in to set it straight, in which case we really do learn something new.

Per the Jets, yea, I don't want to talk about it hehe. To be fair, I knew they would be terrible this year, so it wasn't that disappointing of a year -- and being that I spent a lot of the summer telling my friends who are also Jets fans to prepare themselves for a season long clown show, there is some solace that I could see it coming -- granted, I might have been wrong if Revis never got hurt. They might have been able to eek out a 9-7 season with him healthy.

But yea... the season's over now, so... I'm just going to pretend the Jets are going to grow a brain this summer and that I will actually be able to enjoy Sundays eventually.

[RPMPIRE]

I went to the range again this past weekend (I'll post some videos later) and tried some changes, but didn't really stick. Also, I made the mistake of hitting off the range mat instead of grass (didn't feel like shelling out money to hit off grass) and besides there was some frost the morning I went. Either way, my lower back was feeling achy after this session but got better after a day or two.

After reviewing the videos, I think one of the problems I'm having is I'm not really extending my right arm as much on the backswing - in fact it looks a little lazy. It's only a guess and will wait until the next time I go to the range, but I think it's the reason why the club or wrist breaks at the top and it looks laid off. The club does get to parallel, but it looks like I'm only taking a 3/4 swing. I was definitely hitting a lot of push/fades that day and was struggling a lot to straighten them out, especially with my 3 wood and driver. I'm focusing a lot more on keeping my right heel down mostly for 3 wood and driver because my right foot is practically vertical on impact (A7?). My right foot for my irons are tolerable.

The good thing is my place has a room that just opened up which is large enough to put a net. That's going to be my next project so I can film my swing at home.

As for your Jets, I think, along with the GM, they should have gotten rid of Rex Ryan. But that's just me.

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Sorry, I was only referring to rolling his left foot onto its outstep to help promote the lateral hip shift on the downswing. Everything else I still stand by. A player rolling his front foot onto his outstep is a commonality among some good players (Fowler and Stricker come to mind off the top of my head), but I've recently been exposed to a new idea that says this can be detrimental to one's swing, especially if done incorrectly. The pressures in the front foot on the downswing need to be in the ball area or even toes, and rolling said foot onto its outstep runs the risk of the golfer having too much weight onto his heels through the strike.

As for foot flare out, I think its great, and as you mentioned, does allow the hips to turn more comfortably. It gives you a little bit more balance too. I think most importantly it turns the knees a bit more outward, which really helps promote the proper lower body downswing sequencing.

Flaring them out to 25 degrees is okay, especially if the foot it really coming up early. Remember, I suggested that change to help fix the way his right leg kind of kicks towards the golf ball on the downswing -- which is a common problem if you look at other swing threads here.

Granted, I myself have overdone feet flare out... but that was when I had the back foot turned out some 45 degrees

So yea, I wasn't quite clear enough on what I decided to "remove" from my original advice on the thread. And, I think its great when unqualified people make suggestions... I'm arguably one of them to be honest. I think fleshing out some ideas on another person's swing thread can help both parties to some degree. And, if we say something grossly incorrect, sometimes someone pops in to set it straight, in which case we really do learn something new.

Per the Jets, yea, I don't want to talk about it hehe. To be fair, I knew they would be terrible this year, so it wasn't that disappointing of a year -- and being that I spent a lot of the summer telling my friends who are also Jets fans to prepare themselves for a season long clown show, there is some solace that I could see it coming -- granted, I might have been wrong if Revis never got hurt. They might have been able to eek out a 9-7 season with him healthy.

But yea... the season's over now, so... I'm just going to pretend the Jets are going to grow a brain this summer and that I will actually be able to enjoy Sundays eventually.

[RPMPIRE]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Another BTW - the driving range off the 580(?) in Dublin was where I started practicing golf. I picked it up in September of 2010 after playing only sparsely many years earlier, and I had a 9-day vacation at my brother-in-law's house in Livermore for Thanksgiving. Must've hit 1500 balls that week there. Good luck! - MJM

I was gonna go to that range in Livermore that night I shot the video, but because it was New Year's Eve, they closed at 6. So I went to Pleasanton Golf Center instead.

[JetFan1983]

Honestly, it sounds like I did a poor job of nailing your priority piece. Sorry about that. Hmmmm. Got any new swings for us to see? Perhaps a face-on?

[Beachcomber]

From looking at your videos - I'd work on a few items with the address and setup.

1.) Looks like you could have more posterior pelvic tilt - or 'C' posture at address.

2.) I'd also check your spacing with your shorter irons at address.  It looks like the handle is getting too close to you.  You can do a quick check by placing your left hand on the club - as you would if you were going to grip it.  Then with your right hand - make a fist and stick your thumb out - like you're going to give a thumbs up.  Place your fist in between your belt line/groin and the butt end of the grip.  The proper spacing for the handle should be such that your thumb just comes into contact with the butt end of the grip.  See the following demonstration (sorry for the picture quality - this was taken with my cell phone):

[RPMPIRE]

Here's some high speed videos of my range session on Saturday. I still need to improve my foot action on the downswing cause it was atrocious that day. A large percentage of shots I made were pushes with my irons and severe push slices with my 3 wood and driver. The HS driver video below the shot started straight and curved right about 15 yards. I am also working on getting my club into a better position at A4. Right now, I'm working on keeping my right arm a little more extended, which helps my left arm stay extended. Tried this yesterday and noticed my wrists breaking a little less at the top. Sorry, no face on view again . I'll definitely get it next time.

8 Iron:

Driver:

[JetFan1983]

I feel like your swing is really close to being good.

I also think you should just focus on your backswing right now. Your hand path is lacking in one of the three dimensions, as I said before.

Remember, the backswing is back, up and in. You need more "in."

The above just illustrates how deep your hands get. You can see just how much more inward a guy like Ricky Fowler swings his hands.

Then of course, on the downswing you get really steep. I think you'd likely have to shallow that out and rotate harder to get a better start line a la Jim Furyk, but it's probably just easier (and easier on your back) to swing the hands more inward. That said, if you wanted to keep this backswing, you probably need to make something of an inward loop to shallow out the plane and gain a little more depth. That'd be hard to time. But that's probably what you'd have to do. Maybe. I mean, Jack Nicklaus makes that plane work, but I dunno... I'd still love it if we could see face-on stuff in slow motion. I wonder what more wrist bowing on your downswing would do for your start line and ball flight with that steep downswing and the hands not so inward.

With face-on though, we'd get to see a lot more of what is happening. Plus we could see your grip too.

But for now, I really think you need a more inward hand path. And to post a face-on. It's like we have half the puzzle to work with and that's it. Makes it hard to try to understand your pattern.

[RPMPIRE]

Went to the range over the weekend to see if what I'm working on is sticking and so far, very little progress has been made. It took a few weeks mostly because I had a minor setback with my lower back injury but it's gotten better. My setup position does have some improvement. I still need to clean up my A4 overall because the club still looks very shut. I also included a face on video of my 8 iron. But still the same problems as before with my driver. I'm still trying to keep my right foot down more through impact, but right now I'm just really focused on cleaning up my A4.

I now have a net to hit to at home, but since the space is a little confined, I can't really take quality videos, especially from down the line.

8 Iron DTL - It was windy at the range and after the second swing, the camera fell. I didn't do a good job of resetting the camera so you can't see the ball or my feet for the last 3 swings.

8 Iron (FO)

3 Wood and Driver

[tomvk77]

what i see is that your takeaway goes to far from your body outside, this is the first reason you can get fades or slices clubhead moves on an outside in plane.

Second at he top off your backswing club face is pointing straight up to the sky, so clubhead is way open at that point. What you should try is take a pencil and put that at the closing of your glove, this should reduce the wrong wrist action at the backswing, as for takeaway try to keep de clubhead more on the target line.

I really love your tempo in the swing, balance is great to.