Replaying from original spot

[SCfanatic35]

2 of my competitors yesterday were arguing over these 2 possible situations that never arose, but they still were arguing over them.

Situation #1. Ball is hit into a bunker, player decides he wants to hit again from his original spot under penalty of stroke and distance. Is that allowed?    I am aware of taking an unplayable in a bunker, so the ball must be dropped in the bunker.

Situation #2. Ball is played forward, hits a tree and goes behind the player. His ball rolls into a bush and wants to take an unplayable lie. Can he choose the option of playing from his original spot even though it is closer to the hole?

[Dormie1360]

Yes to both questions. You always have the option to play stroke and distance. Rule 27-1a. 27-1. Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes a. Proceeding Under S troke and Distance At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance. Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance.

[Club Rat]

Yes to situation #1.

No to Situation #2  a player has the option to drop (unplayable from where ball came to rest) with penalty, but not from where shot was played from. The player played his shot and that shot resulted in an unplayable situation deemed by the player. When the player deemed his ball unplayable in the bush, his options would be 2 club lengths from where ball lies (never closer to the hole) or they may take line of pin and go as far as they deem away from hole.

Situations where a player has the option to drop from the position the ball was played from, examples are:

Re Teeing the ball when lost or deemed OB

Ball lost on course

Ball in Water Hazard

Club Rat

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

2 of my competitors yesterday were arguing over these 2 possible situations that never arose, but they still were arguing over them.

Situation #1. Ball is hit into a bunker, player decides he wants to hit again from his original spot under penalty of stroke and distance. Is that allowed?    I am aware of taking an unplayable in a bunker, so the ball must be dropped in the bunker.

Situation #2. Ball is played forward, hits a tree and goes behind the player. His ball rolls into a bush and wants to take an unplayable lie. Can he choose the option of playing from his original spot even though it is closer to the hole?

Just for an example, look at this situation.  A player has a slippery 25 foot downhill putt to hole cut just 7 feet from the edge of the green.  He strike the ball a bit too hard and it cruises past the hole, over the fringe, down a slope and into a water hazard.  The drop a from the hazard would be on the far side of the water, leaving a 100 yard shot.  The player is still allowed to choose the option under rule 26-1a and play again from the previous spot, with a one stroke penalty, even though that is much closer to the hole.  The same is true when proceeding under Rule 28 for an unplayable lie, and it's always up to the player to determine this.  He can declare a ball unplayable at any place on the course outside of a water hazard.  The stroke and distance option is actually the first option listed in the procedure (Rule 28a).  When the ball lies unplayable in a water hazard, then you are required to proceed under Rule 26-1, but the same option is offered under 26-1a.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Club Rat

Yes to situation #1.

No to Situation #2  a player has the option to drop (unplayable from where ball came to rest) with penalty, but not from where shot was played from. The player played his shot and that shot resulted in an unplayable situation deemed by the player. When the player deemed his ball unplayable in the bush, his options would be 2 club lengths from where ball lies (never closer to the hole) or they may take line of pin and go as far as they deem away from hole.

Situations where a player has the option to drop from the position the ball was played from, examples are:

Re Teeing the ball when lost or deemed OB

Ball lost on course

Ball in Water Hazard

Club Rat

You are wrong.  Look it up.

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by Club Rat

Yes to situation #1.

No to Situation #2  a player has the option to drop (unplayable from where ball came to rest) with penalty, but not from where shot was played from. The player played his shot and that shot resulted in an unplayable situation deemed by the player. When the player deemed his ball unplayable in the bush, his options would be 2 club lengths from where ball lies (never closer to the hole) or they may take line of pin and go as far as they deem away from hole.

Situations where a player has the option to drop from the position the ball was played from, examples are:

Re Teeing the ball when lost or deemed OB

Ball lost on course

Ball in Water Hazard

Club Rat

The first option in the USGA rules says that you can play from original spot.

[Club Rat]

Hmm. Went to the decisions and I was wrong.........

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Just for an example, look at this situation.  A player has a slippery 25 foot downhill putt to hole cut just 7 feet from the edge of the green.  He strike the ball a bit too hard and it cruises past the hole, over the fringe, down a slope and into a water hazard.  The drop a from the hazard would be on the far side of the water, leaving a 100 yard shot.  The player is still allowed to choose the option under rule 26-1a and play again from the previous spot, with a one stroke penalty, even though that is much closer to the hole.  The same is true when proceeding under Rule 28 for an unplayable lie, and it's always up to the player to determine this.  He can declare a ball unplayable at any place on the course outside of a water hazard.  The stroke and distance option is actually the first option listed in the procedure (Rule 28a).  When the ball lies unplayable in a water hazard, then you are required to proceed under Rule 26-1, but the same option is offered under 26-1a.

Good example. Thanks.

I wish I would have known this a long time ago.  Their has been situations, none as bad as your example, but similar to that where I was close to the green chipping and bladed the shot into a bush or plugged it at the top of a bunker on the other side of the green. Knowing this rule probably would have saved me 1-2 shots on those holes. Usually when things go bad like that for me, I get into Phil mode. I think I can hit a plugged ball with a backwards flop shot out of a bunker. The only problem is, is that nothing in my game would justify me believing I could pull off a shot like that. So usually a bad hole turns into a joke of a hole and a lot of anger.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Just for an example, look at this situation.  A player has a slippery 25 foot downhill putt to hole cut just 7 feet from the edge of the green.  He strike the ball a bit too hard and it cruises past the hole, over the fringe, down a slope and into a water hazard.  The drop a from the hazard would be on the far side of the water, leaving a 100 yard shot.  The player is still allowed to choose the option under rule 26-1a and play again from the previous spot, with a one stroke penalty, even though that is much closer to the hole.  The same is true when proceeding under Rule 28 for an unplayable lie, and it's always up to the player to determine this.  He can declare a ball unplayable at any place on the course outside of a water hazard.  The stroke and distance option is actually the first option listed in the procedure (Rule 28a).  When the ball lies unplayable in a water hazard, then you are required to proceed under Rule 26-1, but the same option is offered under 26-1a.

Good example. Thanks.

I wish I would have known this a long time ago.  Their has been situations, none as bad as your example, but similar to that where I was close to the green chipping and bladed the shot into a bush or plugged it at the top of a bunker on the other side of the green. Knowing this rule probably would have saved me 1-2 shots on those holes. Usually when things go bad like that for me, I get into Phil mode. I think I can hit a plugged ball with a backwards flop shot out of a bunker. The only problem is, is that nothing in my game would justify me believing I could pull off a shot like that. So usually a bad hole turns into a joke of a hole and a lot of anger.

I think we've all been there.

[rogolf]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I think we've all been there.

And that's also what happens periodically to players when a Rules situation comes up - they can get "tunnel vision" and don't give it enough thought.  One of the characteristics of a good rules official is that he looks into the player's eyes to see if the player is "there" and understanding the discussion.

[Dormie1360]

Just so the OP and others reading are clear on this. The ball does not have to be unplayable or in a hazard. R27-1a always allows you to play under stroke and distance. Rule 20-5 explains the procedure for doing it.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

A player has a slippery 25 foot downhill putt to hole cut just 7 feet from the edge of the green.  He strike the ball a bit too hard and it cruises past the hole, over the fringe, down a slope and into a water hazard.  The drop a from the hazard would be on the far side of the water, leaving a 100 yard shot.  The player is still allowed to choose the option under rule 26-1a and play again from the previous spot, with a one stroke penalty, even though that is much closer to the hole.

Tiger Woods did just that a couple of years ago.

[In The Hole]

I will agree with above and a good rule too, I know myself with some particuar bunkers on courses that I play, if I go in and the ball is not in a perfect position, I will just replay the original shot that got me there. (bunker too deep, and my sand game too unreliable to guarentee getting out first time).

[stangmark]

In a bunker, the ball must be dropped within two club lengths without advancing the ball or directly back along the original line as far as desired without leaving the bunker, or re-hit from the original lie; all with a one-stroke penalty.

It doesn't matter where the original position was (even the putting green).  The only time a player may not declare his ball unplayable is from a water hazard (yellow stakes).

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by stangmark

In a bunker, the ball must be dropped within two club lengths without advancing the ball or directly back along the original line as far as desired without leaving the bunker, or re-hit from the original lie; all with a one-stroke penalty.

It doesn't matter where the original position was (even the putting green).  The only time a player may not declare his ball unplayable is from a water hazard (yellow stakes).

I was under the understanding that it's not the original line, but taking the line from the hole and your ball and going backwards in a straight line from that.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

Quote:

Originally Posted by stangmark

In a bunker, the ball must be dropped within two club lengths without advancing the ball or directly back along the original line as far as desired without leaving the bunker, or re-hit from the original lie; all with a one-stroke penalty.

It doesn't matter where the original position was (even the putting green).  The only time a player may not declare his ball unplayable is from a water hazard (yellow stakes).

I was under the understanding that it's not the original line, but taking the line from the hole and your ball and going backwards in a straight line from that.

Don't take anything stangmark says too seriously.  Judging from his efforts on a dozen or more threads last night, he has a very confused and confusing idea of what the rules actually say in most situations.