My Swing (logman)

[logman]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

What a crock of poo. You're incredibly straight and accurate and a 12 handicap. Sure thing. Lets see you hit a 5iron off the fairway with your weight on your back foot Good luck. The elbow can be another lever but no good player has to actively do anything with the wrist to get the lag or square it up as they do. You get speed because your arm speed is fast. You have speed. Its not the method.

Phil, my handicap would be back into single digits about now but it would have been back out to 20 or so 6 months ago. I.m om the improve!! I was learning a new swing, and some parts of it are difficult to get.

As for speed. When I first started the LPG swing I couldn't hit it "out of my own shadow" as Iacas would say. But even when I was hitting fats,thins, and everything in between I was surprised that the ball went straight. As I got more and more comfortable with the stiff wrist and bent elbow my distance has increased, and it's still increasing.

5 iron off the deck, I'll get onto it.

[David in FL]

I see it as Jim Furyk would have a hell of a time justifying his swing on a forum but the bottom line is he gets it done and that is all that matters.  I applaud the man for standing in there and putting his swing up and letting us see knowing that the wolves were gonna swarm him.

I think the difference is that I doubt that Furyk would try to convince anyone else that they should try to emulate his swing......

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I think the difference is that I doubt that Furyk would try to convince anyone else that they should try to emulate his swing......

Why not...is Jim Furyk's swing "wrong?"  Logman obviously isn't going to reach the masses with his swing technique but what if he is simply passionate about his swing and is trying reach the other people like him who are looking for a different way to swing to make it feel as effortless as Adam Scott's swing looks.  Baseball players get to impact in hundreds of different ways but all that matters is getting there as powerfully as YOU can.  I would rather swing like Tommy Gainey and be on tour grindin it out than swing like Adam Scott and not be.

[onephenom]

Why not...is Jim Furyk's swing "wrong?"  Logman obviously isn't going to reach the masses with his swing technique but what if he is simply passionate about his swing and is trying reach the other people like him who are looking for a different way to swing to make it feel as effortless as Adam Scott's swing looks.  Baseball players get to impact in hundreds of different ways but all that matters is getting there as powerfully as YOU can.  I would rather swing like Tommy Gainey and be on tour grindin it out than swing like Adam Scott and not be.

Its not wrong, but its not easy to repeat for most people. He has a move that works for him, so he figured out how to incorporate that into his swing.

[logman]

Originally Posted by David in FL

I think the difference is that I doubt that Furyk would try to convince anyone else that they should try to emulate his swing......

I'm not saying that everybody should swing this way or that. You can swing the stick anyway you like. I'm just saying there's more than one way to skin a cat. And those golf swing holy grails like straight arm, ,big shoulder turn, cocked wrist etc etc are not in fact the only way to swing a club. I just think there are choices and those choices should be offered to people because they might fit better than the conventional swing.

[onephenom]

Originally Posted by logman

I'm not saying that everybody should swing this way or that. You can swing the stick anyway you like. I'm just saying there's more than one way to skin a cat. And those golf swing holy grails like straight arm, ,big shoulder turn, cocked wrist etc etc are not in fact the only way to swing a club. I just think there are choices and those choices should be offered to people because they might fit better than the conventional swing.

That's a fair response. Those "holy grails" though are like that because for 99.9% of golfers, that's probably the only way to be consistent. There are definitely other ways to break a bone.

[Rfordeagle]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

Why not...is Jim Furyk's swing "wrong?"  Logman obviously isn't going to reach the masses with his swing technique but what if he is simply passionate about his swing and is trying reach the other people like him who are looking for a different way to swing to make it feel as effortless as Adam Scott's swing looks.  Baseball players get to impact in hundreds of different ways but all that matters is getting there as powerfully as YOU can.  I would rather swing like Tommy Gainey and be on tour grindin it out than swing like Adam Scott and not be.

Hmm, baseball players get to impact 'hundreds' of different ways?  Really?  Not the good ones.  They require proper geometry and preservation of angles with rotational energy to efficiently swing with power.  If you took two major league hitters and just focused on their swing after their stride heels land you'd be surprised how identical they look into impact.  Of course assuming pitch height and location are similar.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by Rfordeagle

Hmm, baseball players get to impact 'hundreds' of different ways?  Really?  Not the good ones.  They require proper geometry and preservation of angles with rotational energy to efficiently swing with power.  If you took two major league hitters and just focused on their swing after their stride heels land you'd be surprised how identical they look into impact.  Of course assuming pitch height and location are similar.

Well I was one and know plenty of them and have never seen two swings that were exactly the same.  They may have some similar traits but they are not the same and they ALL do it a lil bit different.  And we all know that what is seen on video isn't necessarily what is being felt so I further assure you that no two swings are alike. The precursors to impact in golf and baseball don't mean as much and each person gets there a lil bit different and in a way that is comfortable to them. So long as they know how to get there with maximum speed, efficiency, and excellent timing  they can still hit homeruns or hit a golf ball really far.

Look how Sammy Sosa's own swing changed as he simply got bigger;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs-TlGgVagg

Barry Bonds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qi0Q_7OwjE

[logman]

Whoa, that Bond guy could hit the ball. He could have made a half decent cricketer!

[Rfordeagle]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

Well I was one and know plenty of them and have never seen two swings that were exactly the same.  They may have some similar traits but they are not the same and they ALL do it a lil bit different.  And we all know that what is seen on video isn't necessarily what is being felt so I further assure you that no two swings are alike. The precursors to impact in golf and baseball don't mean as much and each person gets there a lil bit different and in a way that is comfortable to them. So long as they know how to get there with maximum speed, efficiency, and excellent timing  they can still hit homeruns or hit a golf ball really far.

Look how Sammy Sosa's own swing changed as he simply got bigger;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs-TlGgVagg

Barry Bonds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qi0Q_7OwjE

You are looking at things too much from the outside.  I was hoping those videos were slow motion frame by frame analysis of how Sosa's swing differed with how his hands got to the ball.  But no, it was a highlight montage.  Sure, Sosa changed some things with his setup, and distance from the plate, but how did he actually change his swing once his left heel is down?  Hitters tinker with setup, loading, etc. to find comfort in the box.  "They all have similar traits"....  look no further.  These similar traits are whats important and why they succeed at a high level.  Getting a shallow enough swing plane and staying inside the ball to consistently hit the equator of the baseball are some of these.  They all do the important things well enough.

[Righty to Lefty]

Originally Posted by Rfordeagle

You are looking at things too much from the outside.  I was hoping those videos were slow motion frame by frame analysis of how Sosa's swing differed with how his hands got to the ball.  But no, it was a highlight montage.  Sure, Sosa changed some things with his setup, and distance from the plate, but how did he actually change his swing once his left heel is down?  Hitters tinker with setup, loading, etc. to find comfort in the box.  "They all have similar traits"....  look no further.  These similar traits are whats important and why they succeed at a high level.  Getting a shallow enough swing plane and staying inside the ball to consistently hit the equator of the baseball are some of these.  They all do the important things well enough.

Why do I need to look at it frame by frame when I can clearly see that the swings are different in real time.  What I mean when I say that they have "similar traits" is that some may not stride, some might toe tap, and some have a big leg kick as a timing mechanism but just because one or two aspects of the swing are similar does that in anyway mean they are the same.  I stated that at and through impact all swings are the same just the same way that the ball flight laws apply to to all golfers the same.  But how they get there is in now way the same.  Jim Furyk and Tommy Gainey swings looking nothing like Ernie Els or Adam Scott's swing but the impact conditions are the same for all of them even though none of them get to impact the exact same way.  Jeff Bagwell has a very uppercut looking swing but he timed it so well much of the time.  I personally think Barry Bonds has the best swing ever but many others flat out get it done.

Everything about Logman's swing prior to impact looks different than what we are used to seeing but at impact he looked like anyone else hitting a well struck driver shot regardless of how he got to that point.

[clueless]

You're lacking shoulder turn,try to get your right shoulder under your chin on the backswing.

[logman]

Originally Posted by clueless

You're lacking shoulder turn,try to get your right shoulder under your chin on the backswing.

Thanks for the input clueless.This swing is bit of a balancing act, I mean I'm trying to keep my lower body fairly still and my shoulder turn to just enough. I find if I turn my shoulders into a full turn then I get a very inside out swing path. So basically I'm swinging a "armsy" type swing with the added benefit of the 90 degree front elbow bend.

[solarbear]

Very curious swing mate.

When you set up in an impact fix and a strong grip, like you have, you are setting up with wrist cock.  There is no need to actually set it.  Any ma nipulation to set it further will only screw it up.  Hence the discepancies.

Can you make the same swing with all your weight on your front leg throughout, like in stack and tilt?  I think you could.  Try some pitches and see.  It would probably be easier.  All you would have to do is swing down to a spot just in front of the left leg.  Everything could just unhinge to that spot.  No need to be fast or slow in the body.  Just turn back then drop it all down.

[logman]

Originally Posted by solarbear

Very curious swing mate.

When you set up in an impact fix and a strong grip, like you have, you are setting up with wrist cock.  There is no need to actually set it.  Any ma nipulation to set it further will only screw it up.  Hence the discepancies.

Can you make the same swing with all your weight on your front leg throughout, like in stack and tilt?  I think you could.  Try some pitches and see.  It would probably be easier.  All you would have to do is swing down to a spot just in front of the left leg.  Everything could just unhinge to that spot.  No need to be fast or slow in the body.  Just turn back then drop it all down.

Thanks Solarbear, I think I get what you mean about the wrist cock at impact .....you mean the bottom wrist, I think???

And yeah about the weight on the front leg. I don't know much about S/T but I think I understand that those guys set up with weight over their front leg. I've tried changing ball position and getting my weight forward and it goes fine, and really the elbow bending/stiff top wrist part of the swing can be grafted onto any set up pretty much.

One thing I'm pretty sure about is that if you keep your top wrist stiff and hinge at the elbow the golf swing becomes very mechanical and logical. Most guys that do the LPG swing seem to report better accuracy and if I'm at the range hitting balls and my accuracy is a bit off I know that if I put the wrist brace back on and immobilize it my accuracy returns.

My big problem is getting my bloody tempo under control. Maybe I'll do a bit more experimenting with getting my weight forward.

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

Everything about Logman's swing prior to impact looks different than what we are used to seeing but at impact he looked like anyone else hitting a well struck driver shot regardless of how he got to that point.

Strongly disagree, he is leaning so far back on his left side at impact it looks like he is about to fall over.  Not like anyone else hitting a well struck driver shot IMO.  Chest very open to the target.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty

Why do I need to look at it frame by frame when I can clearly see that the swings are different in real time.

What their swings have in common, and also in common with every other hitter at the Major League level, is that just as the bat starts toward the ball the bat is angled from the strike zone through the head from the pitcher's view.

In a stance waiting for the pitch or even as the ball is being delivered Major League players can look like anything from A to Z but after the stride (if they use one) just at the moment of pulling the trigger the bat will always dissect the head from the pitcher's view.

[Hoganwoods]

I think what you need is to have your weight forward...