Jump to content
Note: This thread is 4218 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

How important is the flat left wrist? Of course it is extremely important but where is it considered acceptable? Is it considered acceptable if the golfer get his hands just inside the left thigh at impact? Or must it be delofted like hell ala Tiger Woods? I see some pros that do this specifically Manassero and Snedeker. Is it because their talent lets them get a way with it? Hope my questio n makes sense!


  • Moderator

Are you being rhetorical or do you actually have a question?  You seem to be answering your own questions.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well if his questions are answered, I'll add one to the list. A flat wrist can have a very specific definition: no angle between the top of the forearm and the top of the hand. My question is, must this flat wrist point directly at the target at impact? I think mine tends to be a little open. It's hard to tell from the Manassero clip above, but I think his may be a little bit open as well. Is it?


  • Administrator

If you're talking about Key #3, then it doesn't need to be truly "flat" - it's more about when the shaft lines up with the lead arm (or the lead shoulder). It should happen at or just after impact.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Oh that's a great visual and mental image to explain it, thanks!


Are you being rhetorical or do you actually have a question?  You seem to be answering your own questions.

In what way am I being rhetorical? I wanted to know what is accepted as fully mastering key 3. Does your left hand have to be by your left thigh or can it be between your legs?


  • Administrator
Originally Posted by jd924

In what way am I being rhetorical? I wanted to know what is accepted as fully mastering key 3. Does your left hand have to be by your left thigh or can it be between your legs?

The shaft has to line up at or just after impact (with proper Key #1/#2). And you have to understand why it's important, and how to achieve it.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by iacas

The shaft has to line up at or just after impact (with proper Key #1/#2). And you have to understand why it's important, and how to achieve it.

Oh I understand that part. I'm working with my 5SK instructor and he wants my hands further ahead of the ball closer to my left  thigh. Its a work in progress, he's been fun to work with. So I basically need an inline impact, doesnt matter where the hands are in relation to my legs? I'll make sure to ask him.


I believe that the lead wrist alignment at impact (measured as per Erik's post relative to shaft and lead shoulder) is to a large extent influenced by your hand and arm speed.

I've seen improvements in my impact alignments after doing swing speed drills with a pulled shaft.

As regards the margin of acceptability, I'd say that if you can manage your AoA (without excessive lateral head movement) then you're in good shape.


The shaft has to line up at or just after impact (with proper Key #1/#2). And you have to understand why it's important, and how to achieve it.

Do I really have to understand why its important? Or can I just be stupid? :-D

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Originally Posted by 14ledo81

Do I really have to understand why its important? Or can I just be stupid?

Our requirements for earning the Key (any Key) include questions that should be answered satisfactorily. :)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

not that its important, but definitions are funny things.  For example "supination of the left wrist" described in Hogan's book is not that at all (according to some physical therapist). I don't remember what he called it, but he went into great detail of the muscles involved e.t.c.  at the same time, I think we all know thatHogan meant it as the opposite of pronation or wrist cock.

"James"

:titleist: 913 D3 with Aldila RIP Phenom 60 4,2 Regular Shaft,  :touredge: Exotics XCG-7 Beta 3W with Matrix Red Tie Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX8 19 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3 Shaft:touredge: Exotics EX9 28 deg Hybrid w UST Mamiya Recoil F3  shaft, / Bobby Jones Black 22 deg Hybrid:touredge: Exotics EXi 6 -PW  w UST Mamiya Recoil F2 Shaft, SW (56),GW (52),LW (60):touredge:  TGS),/ ODDYSEE Metal-X #7 customized putter (400G, cut down Mid Belly)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Hacker James

not that its important, but definitions are funny things.  For example "supination of the left wrist" described in Hogan's book is not that at all (according to some physical therapist). I don't remember what he called it, but he went into great detail of the muscles involved e.t.c.  at the same time, I think we all know thatHogan meant it as the opposite of pronation or wrist cock.

Yes, Hogan got these terms incorrect. Here's what he meant:

Hogan's definition of supination: palmar flexion (combined with supination and ulnar deviation)

Hogan's definition of pronation: flipping. dorsiflexion (combined with supination and ulnar deviation)

Actual definitions of these terms:

Supination: rolling the forearms over to where the palm side faces up

Pronation: rolling the forearms over to where the palm side faces down (just imagine the arm in the above photo doing the opposite)

Palmar flexion: flexing the wrist so the palm side becomes closer to the underside of the forearm. To make the angle between the palm side of the hand and the underside of the forearm less. Also known as a bowed or arched wrist position in golf. Indicative of someone delofting or shutting the club.

Dorsiflexion: When the back of the hand becomes closer to the back of the forearm. To make the angle between the back (dorsum) of the hand and the hairy side of your forearm less. Also known as a cupped wrist position in golf. Indicative of someone adding loft to the club, or opening the club. Also the wrist position of someone who flips at impact, if such a wrist condition is maintained to that point.

Ulnar deviation: in golf this is when the wrists have uncocked

Radial deviation: this is "wrist cock" in golf.

Radial deviation (or wrist cock) on the left. Ulnar deviation (or the wrist's uncocking) on the right

We like to be as clear and as accurate as possible here at the Sandtrap Vocabulary is important!

Cheers, mate!

  • Upvote 2

Constantine

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

FLW is very important to have a good ball striking and prevents scooping or hitting it thin. TGM probably put most emphasis on FLW. Where Adam Scott used to have a little cupped wrist at set up, his LW are flatter these days. Most European Tour players like setting up with FLW. A bit mechanical and stiff to look at but it seems to be working for them.

I think of the hands getting to the ball before the clubhead. Where you need to get your hands at impact will depend on ball position. If you play the ball off the inside of your lead foot then yes, your hands need to get to the lead leg prior to impact. Don't over think it.


  • Moderator
Originally Posted by jd924

In what way am I being rhetorical? I wanted to know what is accepted as fully mastering key 3. Does your left hand have to be by your left thigh or can it be between your legs?

Your second sentence answered your first sentences question, which is why I saw it as rhetorical.  Then in following sentences, you did the same.  So I did not fully understand what you were asking.  Some folks on this forum do that a lot and are making statements instead of asking questions.  Then they go off and trash responses.  I wasn't sure if that was your intention.  Obviously it is not, so I apologize if you thought I was being cranky.

BTW, I am also a 5 Simple Key guy and I sometimes struggle with too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Ball flight becomes lower when this happens.  I would try not to focus too much on where the exact handle position is at impact because it is happening too fast to really be conscious of it.  Rather, focus on each key in order.  Key 1 and Key 2 will help Key 3 happen in the correct position.  1, 2 and 3 will help the path be better for Key 4.  I have no clue on 5 yet, as I struggle with that the most.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Your second sentence answered your first sentences question, which is why I saw it as rhetorical.  Then in following sentences, you did the same.  So I did not fully understand what you were asking.  Some folks on this forum do that a lot and are making statements instead of asking questions.  Then they go off and trash responses.  I wasn't sure if that was your intention.  Obviously it is not, so I apologize if you thought I was being cranky.  BTW, I am also a 5 Simple Key guy and I sometimes struggle with too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Ball flight becomes lower when this happens.  I would try not to focus too much on where the exact handle position is at impact because it is happening too fast to really be conscious of it.  Rather, focus on each key in order.  Key 1 and Key 2 will help Key 3 happen in the correct position.  1, 2 and 3 will help the path be better for Key 4.  I have no clue on 5 yet, as I struggle with that the most.

The first two sentences was an intro bc i honestly had no idea how to ask the question. This thread pretty much answered it though, thanks


Note: This thread is 4218 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • So got fitted in a 35" Odyssey Microhinge Double wide 'blade' yesterday at GG. Choice was between it, SQ to SQ, LAB DF3, Rose Axis and Mizuno Craft  (also a double wide). Apparently I'm pretty good a aiming right of the hole consistently regardless of putter type. But it all came down to distance control and the insert feel. We hit puts in the putting area for the fitting but then ended up on the aisle carpet to hit long 40ish feet putts. Which is where the Microhinge did the best for my stroke. The Mizuno was a close second. The DF3 and Axis weren't bad either but I just felt really confident over the Microhinge and slightly soft but firm contact resonated so well. FWIW, I wanted to like the lie-angle balanced putters more than I did and was prepared to spend a bit. I guess putting is the individualistic aspect of our game. Hopefully, I didn't leave anything on the table. Anyone who knows my putting knows I need all the help I can get.
    • The driver swing honestly feels good. Haven't played in a/the course for a bit but did pretty good at the sim place yesterday.  The idea has been to reduce twisting shaft instinctively at impact. For this have weakened left hand grip considerably. Pushed higher up in the hollow of the palm to take out index finger and thumb in pressure application which is a major are major contributors of shaft twisting at impact. On the flip side, right hand grip is way down in the lower part of the middle fingers. Not using index or thumb much at all. It also is designed to prevent getting underneath the shaft too much at impact. More of a float-loady  'paint the ball' feel through the ball. Overall address and neutral grip keeps both lead and trail sides on respective sides of the shaft instead of over or underneath the shaft. It seems it allows/promotes moving the shaft/club unit in unison with wrist/elbow/shoulder joints similar to an elephant swinging it's trunk. It does not feel like I am guiding the club path or trying to control club face at all. Fairly organic. Playing TPC Sawgrass in about a month. Will see how it all holds up. I hear its a good test.. heh.
    • Day 235 (24 Dec 24) - Rainy Christmas Eve day - worked on putting stroke by rolling a few on the carpet.  Lagging for distance was goal using a version of the ladder drill - started off by going up - 1st step about 3’ - and then stepping a bit higher with each successive roll.  Then stepping down the ladder with each roll resulting in a bit shorter roll.  A fun drill where pace is key.  
    • Wordle 1,284 5/6 ⬜🟨🟨⬜🟩 ⬜🟩⬜🟩🟩 ⬜🟩⬜🟩🟩 ⬜🟩⬜🟩🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...