My Swing (Crim)

[Crim]

I've been Playing Golf for: 4 months (and sometimes went to the range during PE class)

My current handicap index or average score is: high

My typical ball flight is: Varies, typically straight though

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: hook

I've loved golf forever but this year finally picked up some clubs and I'm absolutely addicted. I never realized how bad I looked (swing as well ) until viewing this video. It really doesn't feel that awkward when I'm swinging...

Anyway, apologies about the horrible Iphone quality. Hopefully you all can get the gist of it. My 1st and 2nd views are not the same swing, however the club is the same. I'll take any advice I can get!

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Videos:

[JetFan1983]

I'm bored, so I'll chime in here.

1) Weaken grip some, particularly the left hand. Try to see only 2-3 knuckles max at address in that left hand. Maybe closer to 3 knuckles, but no more. It's too strong. Right hand is very strong as well, but maybe keep that for now to see what happens.

2) Flare both feet out 10-15 degrees at address to help correctly activate the knees. This will also help you turn better on the backswing.

3) Priority Piece #1: Straighten back leg on the backswing.

4) Priority Piece #2 : Turn your shoulders MORE. And downward.

Also, the lead knee should not kick in so excessively towards the trail knee. It may help to feel like you are adding pressure into your front foot in the backswing and that the lead knee is only bending forward, and not inward. Theoretically, it should kick in slightly -- like Tiger in that picture on the right, above -- but feeling like it's not kicking inward at all will help.

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These next few points I'm going to make are just to help your overall understanding, and are something you will eventually get to, but I wanted you to be aware of them.

1) Shaft Plane on the backswing vs. downswing and why this is important to hitting the ball straight (Diagonal Sweet Spot Path)

Why is this important? Because we play golf on a tilted plane, and you are getting well above that plane. I just want you to be aware that this plane exists and is very important to playing golf.

Here are some important links to check out. Studying and broadening your horizons will go a long way towards improving long term. This is fairly "general" information aside from that first link that supports my opinion you should straighten your back knee on the backswing.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/55080/myth-of-maintaining-address-flexion-in-the-rear-knee

http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread

Understand the five basic commonalities:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys

This is just to help you learn a bit more about online golf instruction, like some of the terms I used here:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/53724/the-ps-positions-or-as-alignments-in-the-golf-swing

http://thesandtrap.com/a/big-list-of-golf-terminology

Lastly, I'll leave you with this: Besides the setup changes I suggested, I think straightening your back leg on the backswing (and turning your shoulders more and steeper) is your priority. If you can only work on one thing, I'd work on that. If you can work on more than one thing, I'd watch your lead knee location (not letting it kick in so much) on the backswing as well as making an effort to turn your shoulders more.

[Crim]

Holy crap! That's some amazing stuff. JetFan you're the greatest. I really appreciate linking that general info as well, there's a lot of golf lingo that still confuses me.

It's really amazing how much stuff you miss until someone points it out. I think "turning the shoulders more" will be the hardest thing to master. My arms and shoulders have never felt particularly flexible. I'm honestly going to need to go over that info for a couple hours so I can wrap my head around it all hahaha.

Thanks Jet! I'll try to fix a lot of those things and post another video in a week or two. I'll try to get a lefty swing in there too

[JetFan1983]

Holy crap! That's some amazing stuff. JetFan you're the greatest. I really appreciate linking that general info as well, there's a lot of golf lingo that still confuses me.

It's really amazing how much stuff you miss until someone points it out. I think "turning the shoulders more" will be the hardest thing to master. My arms and shoulders have never felt particularly flexible. I'm honestly going to need to go over that info for a couple hours so I can wrap my head around it all hahaha.

Thanks Jet! I'll try to fix a lot of those things and post another video in a week or two. I'll try to get a lefty swing in there too

You're having difficulty turning your shoulders because of what your trail knee is doing. If you straighten it, your hips will turn. If your hips are turning, your shoulders will be able to turn a lot more. These three things are very much connected re: the trail knee, the hips' ability to turn, and the shoulder's ability to turn.

When the back leg doesn't straighten, the hips can't turn. If the hips can't turn, you lose a significant amount of shoulder turn potential (unless you are a freak with flexibility, which most people aren't). This causes the arms to lift. The point here is though that you should find more freedom to turn given the back leg straightening. Frankly, I wouldn't even worry about what the arms are doing -- I'd just turn the shoulders. Don't use your arms to "drag" your shoulders into turning. Feel the turn directly from the shoulders themselves. The backswing may feel shorter, but you'll be able to accumulate more power this way.

And again, the other stuff I mentioned is more of a "just be aware of this, but don't worry about it yet" kind of thing.

Yea, I thought I'd help since I liked your thread on "pros when they were younger" or whatever it's called. Thanks for contributing

[Crim]

So I got a call from my in-laws out of nowhere yesterday asking if I can play a quick par 9. I rushed over there (in my jeans) :D...eager to try and fix the things you pointed out JetFan. Luckily they could film a few swings. Well it looks awkward and it felt awkward, haha. I tried to keep my back leg straight but after watching the video I still see that I'm bending it quite a bit when addressing the ball...and then I straighten it out in the backswing (awkwardly). I still don't think I'm anywhere close to the proper swing plane but I'm hoping that will come with more practice. I could probably flare my feet out more too.

Can anyone pick out what needs major fixing? I think my body weight is possibly staying too far forward at address? I don't know. I play my first 18 holes tomorrow! Wish me luck...I'm going to need it. What should I work on at the course tomorrow?

Here's the new vid. I didn't keep track of which irons i hit but i think 1st swing is 6 or 7 iron. 2nd I think is 5 iron. 3rd is PW and 4th is 7 or 8.

(LOL at my in laws all excited about that 2nd shot...it wasn't that well hit but ended up in a great spot on the green.)

[saevel25]

Looks like your weight is way back on your heels. I would try to stand a bit more upright in the legs, and get your shoulders more out infront of your toes a bit. This will help free up room to rotate.

[Crim]

Looks like your weight is way back on your heels. I would try to stand a bit more upright in the legs, and get your shoulders more out infront of your toes a bit. This will help free up room to rotate.

Awesome, thanks saevel I'll try that out.

I'm thinking about buying one of those "vision tracks" to try and get my swing more on the right plane. Anyone familiar with it?

I'm also not really sure where to set up in in regards to where the ball is at. I just stand wherever feels most comfortable right now.

[JCRuzanski]

Picked up a copy of "Swing like a Pro" by Ralph Mann and Fred Griffin... quite an excellent book in my opinion, and I've been devouring books at a steady clip this month. It looks like you're squatting too much and not leaning forward with your hips... if that makes any sense.

[JetFan1983]

First, the compliments:

I tried to keep my back leg straight but after watching the video I still see that I'm bending it quite a bit when addressing the ball.

That's okay. You want knee flex at address obviously. You could reduce it a bit though if you wanted.

I still don't think I'm anywhere close to the proper swing plane but I'm hoping that will come with more practice.

That's okay. I just wanted you to be aware of it. Your weight shift needs focus now, but you'll get to swing plane soon enough. And to be honest, the plane is better now than before.

I could probably flare my feet out more too.

Yes, flare feet out more. Add 10 degrees or so.

Also, don't forget to weaken your left hand grip more. It's still too strong. See less knuckles at address. Try to see only three.

Can anyone pick out what needs major fixing?

Yea, I think now you can work on a couple other things, assuming you feel comfortable enough to continue on. If not, then don't.

Good luck with your first ever round of 18 tomorrow! Just try your best to have fun as much as possible. I remember my first round. Things I wish I knew beforehand were to keep my expectations so low that if I even hit one or two good shots I should be encouraged. And also, for that first round, the best thing is to have fun, enjoy the outdoors, and try to learn what you can about the rules, etiquette and all that. For me, it was very, very tough sledding that first time out. Boy, I got eaten alive. I'm not saying you will, but hey, it's a tough game, and it's your first time out. If you walk away enjoying the heck out of your day, hey, you did good, my friend.

I'm hesitant to give you tips now though! I don't want you to have so many thoughts in your head you can't enjoy yourself tomorrow!

OK, I'll throw some info out there (again, my opinion) but I do want to stress how much these tips really require practice at the range. I mean, you could certainly try with practice swings and your video camera to see if you're actually doing it, but really this stuff requires hard work. So, I can't stress enough what I wrote above, which is have fun, enjoy your first ever round, and don't expect to play like a superstar! Not that you were thinking that obviously, but I just feel compelled to mention that

1)  I'm noticing your left arm is breaking down a bit at the top now. Still turn your shoulders, but shorten the arm length up and keep the left arm straighter if you can. Shorter is better for you here because it will keep everything more stable and more simple. With your arms out in front of your chest, it'll be theoretically much easier to find the golf ball on your downswing.

If you could somehow turn your shoulders as much as you're doing in that left picture, and load your arms and wrist angles as much as you're doing in that right picture, you'd have a pretty darn solid backswing, Crim. You can catch a ton of balls solidly from that theoretical position (left picture shoulder turn, right picture arm/wrist angle loading combined).

2) OK, I actually have a downswing tip now, and honestly, if somewhere down the line you can have the back leg straightening, shoulders turning, and controlling front knee location without thinking about them, then great, move onto this one. If not, or if any of those pieces starts to disappear, I'd go back and re-focus on them. Those being in place are more important than this next one being in place, even though this next one is pretty darn important.

Priority Piece: Slide hips, thrust pelvis, and tuck the butt through the strike. Add pressure into the ball of your front foot throughout the downswing and into your follow through. Do both tips in the two previous sentences simultaneously.

This is a huge piece obviously, and takes practice to learn. It's your first round tomorrow, so please, just have fun, man. This stuff is for future range sessions, but obviously, I can't stop you if you feel like experimenting out there haha. But please, just remember to enjoy yourself out there.

This lower body move I'm talking about is very important to the golf swing... I mean, hopefully when you watch some pro swings on Youtube, you'll see this dynamic move they all make with their hips, pelvis and butt on their downswings.

A PGA Tour pro has anywhere from 80-95% of his foot pressure in his lead foot at impact. Right now, I'd guess that your pressure distribution at impact is a lot closer to 50-50 than 80-95%. This is an important thing to add to your swing. Your low point will be easier to control and once you start to get it, you'll be able to work some on key no.4 diagonal sweet spot path (swing plane).

To help learn this butt tucking/hip sliding/pelvis thrusting move while increasing front foot pressure, you can narrow your stance up just a bit. I think that could help isolate some of these movements. Maybe it could make it a bit easier to learn.

For further reading on this: http://thesandtrap.com/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips

^^^ Definitely been a popular thread here over the years.

And this one, on the theory of the foot pressures in the golf swing: http://thesandtrap.com/t/64993/weight-forward-using-swingcatalyst-and-sam-balance-lab-to-explain-pressure-throughout-the-swing

OK to summarize:

1) Have fun tomorrow. Try not to think about the swing so much you forget to have a good time!

2) Work on this stuff at the range if you can haha!

3) Remember that it's more important right now that the shoulders are turning, the back leg isn't excessively bent like it used to be, and the left knee isn't kicking in so much. If you can do these things without thinking about them, then move on to the next thing I'm about to say:

4) Learning to slide your hips, thrust the pelvis, and tuck the butt will help you hit it a ton better. But, you will have to slow down and take small swings to get this.

It helps significantly to learn this if the arms are not overloading on the backswing, which is why I mentioned to you that you have to keep things short with the arms. Some people implementing this hip move forget to bring the arms down too, so having them borderline under-loaded can help overall sequencing. This is just another reason why I am stressing that when you work on this stuff at the range, you are really dumbing things down by making smaller, slower manageable swings. For example, if you tried to learn this with a 7-iron, you're really only trying to hit the ball 50-100 yards.

This is an example of how a lot of pros improve. Check out Charles Howell III here working on something:

You could do something similar to learn this stuff.

Alright, that was a long post, I admit, but hopefully you understand how I organized things. Assuming you can make that swing in that video without thinking, focus on the downswing weight shift by making small, short, slower manageable swings at the driving range. And honestly, film some of those range swings and post them sometime if you can.

[Crim]

Once again JetFan I can't thank you enough. I'm going to scavenge the internet for more "Pros when they were younger pics" just for you haha.

I think the "tense" look comes from thinking about way too much before my back swing. I just have to keep practicing until I can get loose, and like you said, shortening up the back swing a bit should help too.

I'm definitely going to enjoy myself, but there's a few things you've said that should be easy fixes like flaring the feet out, weakening the left hand grip and slightly shortening up that back swing. I've been practicing clubless swings everywhere I go to keep my back leg fairly straight and work on turning my shoulders so that should come a little more naturally now.

The only thing I'm actually worried about tomorrow is my driver. I don't practice it enough because I'm never usually on a course that I need to use it. One of these days I'll get some driver practice in and then post a vid of it. If I connect well then the ball FLIES. But that's a rarity.

Thanks again Jet!

[JetFan1983]

Hey, no problem. Have fun tomorrow.

Oh yea, I forgot one thing, but it's small. A setup thing.

You can tilt you neck downward a bit more at address as well, so the ball is more so in your central vision. It appears your neck is just a tad too tipped back, so to speak.

[JetFan1983]

Oops, I'm sorry, Crim. I can't believe I forgot to tell you to turn your shoulders steeper on the backswing! And no one corrected me, either!

Wow, it really is amazing how stable you can keep your head and still turn your shoulders this flat... I think you are actually way more flexible than you realize, man.

Alright, really sorry I forgot to mention this, but your left shoulder is allowed to tilt downward more throughout the backswing from the DTL view. Visual examples:

Still, I'm amazed you can even keep it steady doing what you're doing right now. Pretty amazing actually. Learning this will help a ton of things like downswing sequencing to feeling less tense throughout. But really, most importantly, you'll be able to turn more like I asked you to in previous posts haha, oops, my fault

Sorry I forgot to mention this. But turn your shoulders at least 10 degrees steeper on the backswing.

As always, monitor changes with the camera. I'd make this your backswing priority, and put it above practicing the hip-slide-thrust-butt tucking-pressure forward move on the downswing. Or do both -- with those slow motion, short range swings I suggested you practice at the range. But if you can't realistically practice both, just work on this backswing thing.

If I could go back and fix my post from the other day, I'd combine it with this section here:

Quote:

1)  I'm noticing your left arm is breaking down a bit at the top now. Still turn your shoulders, but shorten the arm length up and keep the left arm straighter if you can. Shorter is better for you here because it will keep everything more stable and more simple. With your arms out in front of your chest, it'll be theoretically much easier to find the golf ball on your downswing.

If you could somehow turn your shoulders as much as you're doing in that left picture, and load your arms and wrist angles as much as you're doing in that right picture, you'd have a pretty darn solid backswing, Crim. You can catch a ton of balls solidly from that theoretical position (left picture shoulder turn, right picture arm/wrist angle loading combined).

Turning your shoulders steeper will help you turn them a lot more. Just remember that the head must stay relatively steady too when you do this.

Again, I'm really sorry I forgot to mention this. I didn't notice it at first because of how steady you kept your head from FO. Usually when someone turns their shoulders this flat, the head translates back, but you somehow managed to not do that. Crazy flexibility, and probably why everything looks tense.

But turning them steeper will be key for you in learning how to have more turn but also less arm loading on your backswing. I kind of left you in a lurch explaining what I wanted you to do in a previous post, but not explaining to you how to do it. So here it is.

My bad.

[Crim]

I played Highland National in St. Paul on Friday and despite the high score...I think I hit a lot of good shots and had a REALLY great time for my first 18. Final score was 110 but I know I can kick off at ton of strokes by getting my driver under control. Irons and short game were better then usual aside from a few topped shots from my woods which I rarely ever get to play or practice with. I found out that I love my 5 wood, I can really crush the ball with that club.

I parred 3 out of the 4 par three's which I'm pretty psyched about. Only 3 putted once.

If any beginner ends up reading this and they are having trouble putting like I was just a month ago. Check out this putting tip that I now practice daily in my garage. Its given me so much confidence, I still can't read a green to save my life but if the putt is relatively straight...it's going in.

Once again my driver is causing all the problems, huge slice right. It's hard to get a low score when I'm constantly having to hit out of the rough :(. I went to the driving range today to hit a bucket with JUST my driver...I straightened it out a bit but I still must not be connecting flush or utilizing the right movement because they have to be under 200 yards still. At least they got a little bit straightened out.

JetFan, I owe a lot of my great iron shots from what you've taught me already so thanks again! Also don't worry about the keeping my shoulders steeper tip! But I'm really glad you said something  because I utilized that today and it feels MUCH more comfortable. Every time I go to the range, course, or this website, I'm learning something new which is just a blessing. I'm always anxious to play again. Hopefully I can get a couple driver swings on video soon.

[Crim]

Good news! Drove by the range today and convinced my 8 and 1/2 month pregnant wife to get out and film some driver swings

I don't know what it is about the driver that makes me completely forget how to swing. I'm looking at the vids as I type this and can't believe how tense I look. I know the driver swing is a little different from irons but for me....there seems to be a massive difference. My irons are coming a long real nicely.

I'll get the vids posted up soon but at the moment I'm taking screen shots of different parts of my swing and comparing it to Hunter Mahan's. Why Hunter? I don't know, I just think his swing looks so smooth...I don't want to completely emulate anyone but I'd really like to eventually get a swing as smooth as his is. I'll post the screen shots and vids up at the same time. Hopefully within the next couple hours...

[Crim]

Ok here it is, albino chicken legs and all. I'll post the video and then the screen shots. Check out that 3rd shot....FAIL. Apologies for the unstable video and the wind...may want to turn the volume down. Once again this is a full video of driver shots, I do recognize a lot of things that need work, but I'm thankful for any and all feedback!

[Crim]

Here is some screenshots compared with Hunter Mahan to help me visualize what I need to work on.

Still WAY too much flex in the knees. For some reason the driver just causes me to do that. Need to somehow just work on getting that back leg straight. Also, possibly teeing up the ball too much? I think I also need to drop the head down to see the ball straight on.

UGLY knee flex. It almost looks like my front leg is coming off the ground as well.

Not quite sure why I ended up with the club in that position.

His right hand looks like it's turned over more then mine. Legs need to be more straight, etc.

Look at how straight Hunter's right elbow is compared to mine.

That straight back leg is allowing him to get so much torque. This is going to take some practice.

LOL gross, it looks like I'm riding an invisible horse... .

Not much to say here, the result of a poor backswing.

Could be worse...a lot to work on though. Give me your thoughts!

[saevel25]

For the first image, you might want to feel like your getting a stretch in your hamstrings when you set up. I found the set up to be close to making a dead lift move in weight lifting. You keep your knees slightly bent, and you bend over at the waist feeling the stretch in the hamstrings. I know some mornings if I just get up to play golf with out stretching or hitting a few at the range, I can feel my hamstrings are tighter, and they get a slight stretch in them when I take my stance.

The only thing I can tell from the screen shots are, your right knee keeps to much flex. Your weight is not forward at impact, your lead hip should be outside or on top of your front foot, but its almost to the finish telling me your not shifting your weight your just spinning.

[Crim]

For the first image, you might want to feel like your getting a stretch in your hamstrings when you set up. I found the set up to be close to making a dead lift move in weight lifting. You keep your knees slightly bent, and you bend over at the waist feeling the stretch in the hamstrings. I know some mornings if I just get up to play golf with out stretching or hitting a few at the range, I can feel my hamstrings are tighter, and they get a slight stretch in them when I take my stance.

The only thing I can tell from the screen shots are, your right knee keeps to much flex. Your weight is not forward at impact, your lead hip should be outside or on top of your front foot, but its almost to the finish telling me your not shifting your weight your just spinning.

Thanks!

The first part should be an easy fix.

The second part (adding more pressure to the lead leg and foot and shifting correctly) seems to constantly elude me. Is there any drills that you know of that can help me get that feeling of adding more pressure onto that lead leg? Or is it pretty much just get out there and get after it? Can you practice shifting that weight into the lead leg without a ball (at home)...or should I always practice with one?

I broke my left ankle a couple years ago and it gets a little tender after hitting a bunch of balls. I wonder if that's effecting it at all. I doubt it though, I'm sure I just need to figure out that weight shift.