European Ryder Cup team

[FarawayFairways]

Wait, Holland and The Netherlands ARE the same thing, no? I've been to both and it was at the same moment in time. What am I missing?

Holland doesn't exist as a nation state, in the same way Hawaii doesn't. Unlike Hawaii though, Holland is the influential region of the Netherlands and has a degree of proud independence. It's really a question of how people identify themselves.

I'm not sure what the American equivalent would be. The nearest I can come up with would be someone from Dallas identifying themselves as a Texan before they admitted to being American. You can bet your life though that if you went to Europe and spoke to someone, you'd pick the wrong the side. Europe is riddled with these

American Presidents still use the country name England to refer to the UK (albeit the present incumbent isn't the worst offender - that was Reagan)

Catalans, Basques and Castillion Spanish is another one

Walloons and Flems in Belgium

Italy has a north south split compounded by a history city states (Venice recently held a referendum to annex itself from Italy)

Come to think of it Scotland, is voting in the next few weeks for independence (well they're voting against independence as it happens - but we'll see)

[Silent]

I don't agree with you FF. Yes, Holland in the Netherlands is like Texas or Hawaii (or any other state) in USA. But no-one in the province of Holland will feel themselves more like 'Hollandish' then from the Netherlands. It's just a language-mistake that got very common. Noord Holland and Zuid Holland, like every province, have their own flag for ceremonial purposes, but really not 1 person living there will use it over the Dutch flag. It really is just a translation or usuage of language matter that people say Holland instead of the Netherlands, and has absolutely nothing to do with people identifying themselves like for example Scottish, Walloons, Catalans etc do......

[9iron]

Holland is to The Netherlands as say The South or New England are to the USA. One a region, the other a nation. Never knew this until about 6 weeks ago, but all nonetheless true! Proof that even a goofball like me can learn things from time to time.Ha!

[Gunther]

Interesting, not sure why I never knew this. Thanks for the education all!

[FarawayFairways]

But no-one in the province of Holland will feel themselves more like 'Hollandish' then from the Netherlands.

It's those outside the provence who don't enjoy being described as Hollanders (in my experience) albeit they could be acting a bit

The New England Confederation is of course the better example

It takes on an economic dimension as a city like London (Holland) is surrounded by places that aren't really part of it (The Netherlands) the people who live in these satelittes often get narked when you ask them where they come from, and they say "Watford" when you then turn round and say "Oh London then"

Watford ain't London, but it falls under London's influence to such an extent that outsiders bracket it as having been consumed thus. Those outside of it though prefer to have their separation from the dominant entity

[Silent]

Well, I live in Utrecht (so outside the province Holland), but as you can see earlier this thread I also used the word Holland instead of the Netherlands. Also the Dutch national team is often cheered with a song 'Hup Holland hup'. Anyway, we are getting a bit carried away in this offtopic issue I guess :-)

[chasm]

...er, back to the Europen team? The Westwood who played on Sunday in the WGC would be a cert for a Captain's pick. The Westwood impersonator who played in the Open and the US Open, not so much. We'll have to wait and see which one turns up at the PGA.

[RJH999]

I'm surprised more people haven't heard of Luiten.... European Locks: -Rory McIlroy -Sergio Garcia -Victor Dubuisson -Henrik Stenson -Justin Rose -Martin Kaymer Probably getting in -Thomas Bjorn -Graeme McDowell -Jamie Donaldson Captains Pick Options -Ian Poulter -Luke Donald -Stephen Gallacher -Joost Luiten -Miguel Angel Jimenez -Lee Westwood Outside The Box Options -Jonas Blixt -Francesco Molinari I think Ian Poulter pretty much is a must-have. He's been playing pretty poorly but his game really comes out for the Ryder Cup. My gut feeling is that the other two will be the Englishmen. I would love to see Jimenez get a nod, but I don't think he will. Luiten and Gallacher have decent shots, but I don't think they will get in. If the captains picks are Poulter, Westwood, and Donald the team would look like this -Rory McIlroy -Sergio Garcia -Victor Dubuisson -Henrik Stenson -Justin Rose -Martin Kaymer -Thomas Bjorn -Graeme McDowell -Jamie Donaldson -Ian Poulter -Luke Donald -Lee Westwood. Yikes! That team is absolutely stacked. It will be tough sledding for the US

[FarawayFairways]

I'm not convinced Donaldson isn't going to get overtaken yet

Bjorn's place looks nailed down though

Luiten and Jiminez would be more left field thinking than Mollinari or Blixt I reckon. It's just possible of course that Blixt could be picked with an eye on pairing him with Stenson?

Funnily enough, as we blather away about the nations of Europe and how we identify ourselves, it always strikes me as unusual that Europe (a non country) manages to come together, whereas the genuinely sovereign US struggles (without invoking non golf stimuli).

I know that Europe's got round this periodically by setting up mini nation teams, and none had been more successful than the Spanish pairings which go at about 70%, so it's always possible that he could be looking at a Swede to pair with Stenson, albeit logic might make Kaymer the partner of choice there as another player that's the odd one out. Stenson and Kaymer look remarkably similar types though, with similar temperaments. They look like a decent pairing for a foursome I'd say

Incidentally, the pairings that have poorest performance (by some distance - its actually a losing record) are the Irish

[RJH999]

I think Robert Karlsson has been the better swede this year....

[FarawayFairways]

Maybe, but the Ryder Cup is a stage, and sometimes we're looking for those with a bit of X factor to announce their arrival. It can go carnival and it can go bear pit.

I'm thinking that America will probably send Bubba out first and with his ropey temperament, plus a tendancy to say things which won't go down well in Scotland, Europe needs to think about how they can strike an early blow against him by bringing the crowd into play. We know he gets rattled away from home, and that's leading to me thinking what would happen if a pairing like Poulter and Gallacher were lay one on Bubba first up? It would be a little bit like watching the self styled invincible pairing of Mickelson and Woods getting gubbed twice on the first day and American hopes sank from there on in.

[Silent]

In my opinion Westwood doesn't deserve to be in the team this year at all. In (co) European Tour events in 2014 he only got 2 top 10 places, and since August 2013 a total of 3. I don't know if he besides that had top performances in PGA Tour only events, but this is not impressive at all. Luiten for example had 4 top tens (3 of them were top 5 actually) and two more top 15 in 2014 alone. Since august 2013 three more top 5 places (1 win).

[RJH999]

Can we confirm that Silent is not, in fact Joost Luiten?!!

[Silent]

Haha, I wish (in terms of having his quality in golf) :-D

[RJH999]

Haha, I wish (in terms of having his quality in golf) :-D

Definitely Joost Luiten's brother. Why don't you pine for RJD? I might have to do some investigative journalism on your ass

[inthehole]

the team would look like this

-Rory McIlroy

-Sergio Garcia

-Victor Dubuisson

-Henrik Stenson

-Justin Rose

-Martin Kaymer

-Thomas Bjorn

-Graeme McDowell

-Jamie Donaldson

-Ian Poulter

-Luke Donald

-Lee Westwood.

Yikes! That team is absolutely stacked. It will be tough sledding for the US

Gmac, Poulter, Bjorn, Dubuison, Donald, Westwood have been largely underachieving this year (at least on the PGA tour - none of them are setting the world on fire over here)  ... just not seeing this contest as a blowout, my eloquent European friend !

[RJH999]

Gmac, Poulter, Bjorn, Donald, Westwood have been largely underachieving this year (at least on the PGA tour) ... not seeing this contest as a blowout, my eloquent European friend !

Nah, more like a cynical American.

[Silent]

Definitely Joost Luiten's brother. Why don't you pine for RJD? I might have to do some investigative journalism on your ass

~Jorrit