What would you have done? (Ethics question)

[janzaruk]

If he won, I'd bang him on it, If I won, Awww forget it, we still won.

I really don't think that would be legal or ethical. They did it the right way by calling him on it when they noticed.

[CG031]

I thought the person who violates a rule is supposed to call it on themselves. That's what my dad told me once. It's not my job to call someone on something, it's the integrity of the game. Idk what he really meant, but he's been playing for 45 years so I took his advice on it.

[Fourputt]

I thought the person who violates a rule is supposed to call it on themselves. That's what my dad told me once. It's not my job to call someone on something, it's the integrity of the game. Idk what he really meant, but he's been playing for 45 years so I took his advice on it.

In a perfect world, maybe that works. In the real world it's a bit of a fantasy. A pure golfer will play by the rules, and not even consider anything underhanded. But these days, too many players have learned sports by playing football, baseball, basketball... all with the philosophy that you try to get away with as much as you can until you get caught. You never call a foul on yourself. Then they take that mindset to the golf course, and voila!!

In this scenario, the player supposedly didn't realize his mistake. I don't think I could play 14 holes without noticing a club in my bag that wasn't supposed to be there, but he says that's what happened. Anyway, when you see someone violating a rule in a competitive round, you have to call him on it. If he is an honest, sporting golfer, he will be embarrassed, but will still thank you for it. If he is being dishonest, he will hate your guts for it. Either way, it's the correct thing for you to do. Especially in a stroke play tournament, it's every golfer's responsibility to protect the entire field by calling such penalties.

[gogolfing]

A rule's a rule. If you saw him break another rule, improving the lie etc... I don't think anyone would hesitate to call it. Anyone who knows the rules of golf even slightly should know the 14 club rule. He was mad, but it should have been mad at himself for a stupid mistake. Too bad he didn't have a caddie to fire like Woosnam at the Open a few years back, might have made him feel better

[sonicblue]

The "textbook" answer is, too many clubs is a violation, and you're called on it, you suffer the penalties. Welcome to golf. See football analogy: Bill Belichick.

The "feel" answer is: if that guy had won, surely that's cheating. No different than having an illegal driver or illegal ball. If the club was just sitting there not being used, ostensibly a redundant/duplicate of some other club he had, it should have occurred to him to count his clubs (doesn't sound like he would have actually called himself on it during the round) before the round started.

Of course, the real lesson here is, this guy sounds like a douche and, two down with five to play is plenty of time to still win, so it's not like the mistake outright dq'd him from the match. However, sounds like his own inability to deal with adversity and his OWN mistake took him right out. Can I have his name and a picture so I know to avoid getting paired with this guy at any point in the future?

[Thrdroc]

I most certainly would have called the person on it.

Even though he claims its his friends club which it could have been, he would have noticed on the first hole that it should not be there. I notice instantly when there is something extra or missing from my bag. Its just a feeling you have with your equipment.

[janzaruk]

I notice instantly when there is something extra or missing from my bag. Its just a feeling you have with your equipment.

I feel the same way.

[Chairman7w]

To quote Niblick, Hell yeah I'd call him on it!

(So what happened?)

[powerfade]

To quote Niblick, Hell yeah I'd call him on it!

see post #14

[fusioncal]

I would've called on it. If he can't count how many clubs there are, I'll count for him and I won't mind if he's getting mad.

Ironic thing is I've got well, someone I know (not a friend) who had won three months in a row in this local tournament. At the first one I was paired up with him and during the round I noticed he took some strokes off. Not on all holes but only some holes where he played poorly. What should have been a triple bogey was written off as a bogey on one hole and I'm sure of it. I didn't say anything, because I was focusing on my play and didn't want to mess up. So I didn't put attention to what he played anymore.

At the end of the 18th hole he rushed his scorecard for me to sign it. I hesitated at first because I was sure he must've have taken more strokes off then I thought, "Hey what's the deal? He's not gonna win anyway." Guess what? I was wrong. He won and gone up the stage to receive the honor. I was like, "What the...??" I told all my friends who were also there and said that cup wasn't his, it should've been someone else's.

The next few days after that incident I went to my usual driving range place and also where his coach was teaching. I came up to him and said, "I was paired up with your student in the tourney and apparently he's not having it fair and square." He immediately said, "Did he take strokes off?" Seems to me the coach knew his habit. I was like whatever and I wouldn't want to be paired up again with him, besides this guy really smelled when he's sweating.

Anyway, I learned that there are some established people in that tournament who also take strokes off of the scorecard more like a tradition. Then in the next tournaments this guy won again for the second and also third times. I've finally had it. I talked to the official when the ceremony has ended and warned about the guy who had won three times in a row for the last couple of months. Afterwards, this guy never won again.

Now I don't care what other people score are everytime I'm in that corrupted tournament. I just play for my own fair and square. My group has this hate for people who don't play honestly. I've heard that you can learn what kind of people they are straight away in golf, and I've learned a lot about that guy. I won't definitely do business with him.

[janzaruk]

Wow, that is all I can say. Hope you NEVER have to play with him again. BTW, next time, tell an official and DONT sign the scorecard. If he asks why, tell him you are not signing a cheaters card.

[fusioncal]

Wow, that is all I can say. Hope you NEVER have to play with him again. BTW, next time, tell an official and DONT sign the scorecard. If he asks why, tell him you are not signing a cheaters card.

I just remembered 2 specific holes he took away the strokes. On par 4, his second shot went into greenside bunker and took 4 strokes to escape and land the ball on the green, 1 putt. Total is 7 strokes. He wrote off as a bogey.

Also, on that last hole (18th) a par 5 dogleg to the left complemented with (first) lake to the left, (second) lake to the right, and (third) a little pond straight in the end corner of the dogleg. First shot off the tee he hit slice and went into the lake on the right. Went off ahead and dropped the ball next to the edge of the lake. Again, the ball decided to take a bath in the second lake. On the 5th shot the ball went into the pond. Afterwards it took him 3 strokes to finish. And what did he write? A double bogey on his scorecard. Water hazard for 3 times and 3 strokes to finish on par 5, how the heck someone could finish with a double bogey? I tried not to sign his scorecard that's why I hesitated. Then I thought I didn't want to create any scene to someone I just got introduced for a week or so just for the sake of it. I was assuming he's not gonna win anyway and there must've been someone who's way better than him. He did put 24 handicap and played 5 under, which is the max. If he played 6 under he would've been disqualified for improper handicap placement. So he won with total score of 67 of par 72. Nice huh? What annoyed me is whenever he's asked what his score were, without any guilt he answered, "Just 91." The next tournament he dropped his handicap to 22 and played "Just 89." The third time he put 20 handicap and he played "Just 87." And that's the time I just couldn't take it anymore.

[mstuk]

I just remembered 2 specific holes he took away the strokes. On par 4, his second shot went into greenside bunker and took 4 strokes to escape and land the ball on the green, 1 putt. Total is 7 strokes. He wrote off as a bogey.

I am pretty certain that by signing for a scorecard you knew to be incorrect you have broken the rules and should have been disqualified. Your actions have in effect cheated whoever came second and indeed everyone else in the field . I assume you are not playing in a proper club comp since this guy seems to make up his own handicap.

[cmthomas68]

Pretty much this same thing occurred in our A grade matchplay championships last year. On the 3rd tee someone noticed that his opponent had 15 clubs. The guy tried to do what he thought was the right thing, as it was an accident and they were friends, so he didn't call the penalty on him. After the round it was found out what had happened and both players were DQ'd from the championships because they had agreed to break the rules.

Seemed harsh at the time, but the club had no choose as they are the rules...