Swampy Woods - Hazard or Lost Ball?

[majorjongles]

It is an unmarked wooded area with swampy, wet ground that leads to a creek (seen in the lower right corner).  Some of the area is swamp, yet some of it is just dense forest ground-covering. Either way there is no finding a ball that enters this area.

This swampy wet ground may not necessarily be part of what is deemed a water hazard[quote name="ColinL" url="/t/83558/swampy-woods-hazard-or-lost-ball#post_1179848"] You are overlooking what has already been mentioned in the thread.  If a ditch, pond, stream etc meets the definition of a water hazard, it is a water hazard whether marked or not and you can proceed under Rule 26.  See Decision 26-3 [/quote] So decision 26-3 may not apply [quote name="ColinL" url="/t/83558/swampy-woods-hazard-or-lost-ball#post_1179848"]  You can't just decide to deem a large area as casual water: the presence or not of casual water (as defined ) will determine the extent of ground affected. If you had decided the area in question was not a water hazard you could  only take  relief from casual water where casual water existed and only if it  interfered with lie, stance or area of intended swing.  My l apologies if I have misunderstood what you meant by deeming the whole area as AGC. [/quote] Yes I was just taking a shortcut saying deem the whole area to be AGC. If the area had numerous small patches of casual water* you would have no way to determine exactly which patch you had entered and should proceed under lost ball . However if on arrival at the area you realised your ball had entered an area of casual water 20yrd by 20yrds a full 30yrds short of the creek, you could quite easily argue your ball was lost in an AGC and proceed under 25-1 C Ball in Abnormal Ground Condition Not Found It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward an abnormal ground condition is in such a condition. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1. If it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in an abnormal ground condition, the player may take relief under this Rule. If he elects to do so, the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition must be determined and, for the purpose of applying this Rule, the ball is deemed to lie at this spot and the player must proceed as follows: (i)Through the Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot through the green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(i). *Normally to determine if an area is under casual water I press down with my foot(not excessively or on the green) and if water comes up i deem it casual water [quote name="ColinL" url="/t/83558/swampy-woods-hazard-or-lost-ball#post_1179848"] By the way, when you say you have to be sure of where your ball crossed the margin of an AGC, have you considered  Rule 20-2b Where to Drop?

[COLOR=0000FF]When a ball is to be dropped as near as possible to a specific spot, it must be dropped not nearer the [/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF][COLOR=474B55][URL=http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-14253,Hole]hole[/URL][/COLOR] [/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]than the specific spot which, if it is not precisely known to the player, must be estimated. [/COLOR]

Do you think this permits you to estimate where the ball last crossed the margin of an AGC when you aren't sure?

[/quote] yes I do believe this allows you (and your playing partners)to estimate your point of entry. To be honest the whole idea of getting a free drop out of abnormal ground condition similiar to the OPs situation is extremely messy and fraught with plenty of potential rules infringements but it is in my opinion possible.

[Braivo]

To be honest the whole idea of getting a free drop out of abnormal ground condition similiar to the OPs situation is extremely messy and fraught with plenty of potential rules infringements but it is in my opinion possible.

OP here.

I would not describe this area as casual water. This is a creek bed that has the potential to fill right up to the tree line during rainy months. I played this in June and it was water that just happened to be covered by trees, remove the trees and it would look like a large creek.

I played this course last night and the area under the trees is now dry, with plenty of room to walk around and find a ball.

If I only played this course once, in June, I would have treated this like a water hazard, taken my penalty and moved on.

Now, in August, had I played this only one time and had no course knowledge I would've played it as a lost ball since it went into unmarked woods that did not have water. Stroke and distance penalty.

This is why marking the course is so important, for consistency.