Gravitational Waves - this stuff just boggles the imagination

[Buckeyebowman]

On 5/15/2016 at 4:16 PM, natureboy said:

Clearly we need to create some black holes here on earth so we can study them up close before we draw any real conclusions.

Well, maybe not. Especially when you have guys as brilliant as Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose on the job!

And remember, there were those who thought that the CERN Supercollider would do just that!

By the way, if you want a science treat, read the Wikipedia page on Roger Penrose. I just took a brief look at it, and intend to do just that. I figure if I click on all the links, it should take about 2 weeks! I'm sure that a lot of it will be over my head, but I'm also certain that much of it will be fascinating! Especially Penrose's thoughts on "quantum consciousness".

And speaking of CERN, it seems that they have developed evidence that confirms the existence of the Higgs field. I'm not up on all the latest, but, apparently they are still crunching the data.

Another interesting tidbit from CERN was that they ran an experiment that seemed to suggest faster than light particles! Apparently, they sent them to a location in northern Italy, and the timers suggested that they traveled faster than the speed of light! But, like I said before, the scientists kept whacking away at it and figured it out. There was an error in the synchronization of the timers! From the Swiss/French border to northern Italy might take you a while to drive, or fly, it's a fraction of a second for something traveling at the speed of light.

I also found it amusing that this was referenced on the TV show "The Big Bang Theory", when the Sheldon Cooper character proposes it as a topic of dinner conversation. "Faster than light particles at CERN. Paradigm shifting discovery? Or another Swiss export as full of holes as their cheese?! Discuss."

[natureboy]

13 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Well, maybe not. Especially when you have guys as brilliant as Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose on the job!

I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment about theorizing before blind experimentation being a very useful thing in understanding potentially significant consequences or ludicrous energy requirements. I was also thinking of BH's in the 600K to 1M metric tons.

I thought the Higgs was confirmed like 2 years ago?

Edited May 18, 2016 by natureboy

[Buckeyebowman]

As I understand it, physicists prefer the theory to make the predictions which must then be confirmed or denied through experimentation rather than the other way around. Observational data providing a base to work from, and then cobbling together an explanation for it based on the data! Kind of sounds a little like "fudging" doesn't it?

And has it been that long? Wow! Now that I think about it, I remember an announcement stating that the physicists at CERN had "initially" confirmed the existence of the Higg's Field. Haven't heard much since, but as I said, I'm not up on all the latest. Also, I guess the media, and the general populace, aren't as fired up for science as they once were. Didn't Einstein get a ticker tape parade down 5th Avenue for relativity?

[natureboy]

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

As I understand it, physicists prefer the theory to make the predictions which must then be confirmed or denied through experimentation rather than the other way around. Observational data providing a base to work from, and then cobbling together an explanation for it based on the data! Kind of sounds a little like "fudging" doesn't it?

Sometimes experiment / observation leads theory, though.

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

And has it been that long? Wow! Now that I think about it, I remember an announcement stating that the physicists at CERN had "initially" confirmed the existence of the Higg's Field. Haven't heard much since, but as I said, I'm not up on all the latest. Also, I guess the media, and the general populace, aren't as fired up for science as they once were. Didn't Einstein get a ticker tape parade down 5th Avenue for relativity?

Perhaps there's still some peer review stages before it's 'well settled'.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 5/19/2016 at 3:21 PM, natureboy said:

Sometimes experiment / observation leads theory, though.

Perhaps there's still some peer review stages before it's 'well settled'.

I suppose that could be it.

It's amazing how some people think things went. Such as when Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity. Some people think that everyone went "Huzzah!", and anointed Einstein a saint! At the time, it was more like a third thought "This is a paradigm shifting work", another third thought, "Interesting, but let's see what experiment can confirm", and the last third thought, "This guy's out of his mind! What a bunch of BS!"

[boogielicious]

9 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suppose that could be it.

It's amazing how some people think things went. Such as when Einstein published his Special Theory of Relativity. Some people think that everyone went "Huzzah!", and anointed Einstein a saint! At the time, it was more like a third thought "This is a paradigm shifting work", another third thought, "Interesting, but let's see what experiment can confirm", and the last third thought, "This guy's out of his mind! What a bunch of BS!"

That is how all scientific discovery evolves. I think it always has. I imagine the first human to figure out how to make fire was criticized by the "find fire" community. 

[natureboy]

Another example of scientific understanding evolving / some studies & experiments are better than others: salt is not longer going to kill you.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160521071410.htm

Edited May 21, 2016 by natureboy

[Buckeyebowman]

On 5/21/2016 at 5:53 PM, natureboy said:

Another example of scientific understanding evolving / some studies & experiments are better than others: salt is not longer going to kill you.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160521071410.htm

I think things like this are why so many view science with a jaundiced eye these days. One week this is bad for you, the next week it's not only OK, it may actually do some good! There seems to be a lot of flip flopping going on.

On 5/21/2016 at 9:01 AM, boogielicious said:

That is how all scientific discovery evolves. I think it always has. I imagine the first human to figure out how to make fire was criticized by the "find fire" community. 

Yes, they used to try to carry it around with them. It might interest some to know that public sentiment at the time of the Revolutionary War lined up in much the same way. About a third were all for the revolution, another third were "mugwumps", with their "mugs" on one side of the fence and their "wumps" on the other, and the final third were Loyalists. And it might surprise many to learn just how many people emigrated from the U.S. to Canada after the revolution because they were still loyal to the Crown!

So, it seems that the Revolutionary War was a distinctly minority effort!