Throwback question 1980s and early 90s

[SavvySwede]

2 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

I know he played Wilson in 1995... I think he signed with them around 1993?? I'm talking about the Driver he won the '91 PGA and '92 B.C. Open with, I was watching the 1991 Skins Game where he won some skins... the driver he played didn't sound like it "pinged" like a metal wood, but it sounded kind of like the "crack" of wood, just a bit more muffled.

A lot of the older steel heads were foam filled to dampen the sound and make it more wood-like. People grew used to using louder and louder drivers over the years.

[Mike Boatright]

The number one reason they played Persimmon woods and metal fairways is because of quality and most of all it's size. Persimmon woods like this one below were 200 or 250 cc and just felt good and performed very well in terms of workability. The metal drivers then were to small for it's weight and generally performed just so so but were equal to persimmons on dead center hits. The smaller profile of a 15 deg steel headed fairway wood was ideal and still performs better in some aspects than today's offerings in the same steel.

[onthehunt526]

On 3/6/2016 at 2:15 PM, saevel25 said:

1995 he was playing Wilson clubs, 
 

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-08-09/sports/sp-33038_1_british-open-champion

 

1991 PGA when he was the ninth alternate, when Price withdrew and gave him his caddie, Jeff "Squeaky" Medlen, he had a PING bag. The Driver in question had like a cream colored head with a red graphite shaft, I can't for the life of me figure out what driver he had... 

 

[natureboy]

On 3/7/2016 at 4:43 AM, Mike Boatright said:

The number one reason they played Persimmon woods and metal fairways is because of quality and most of all it's size. Persimmon woods like this one below were 200 or 250 cc and just felt good and performed very well in terms of workability. The metal drivers then were to small for it's weight and generally performed just so so but were equal to persimmons on dead center hits. The smaller profile of a 15 deg steel headed fairway wood was ideal and still performs better in some aspects than today's offerings in the same steel.

Yep. The Big Bertha in '91 started turning the design corner on CC's (higher MOI) for equal weight and then titanium came in.

I also think that loft creep with irons began well before the widespread adoption of low CG's and flexing faces. Just look when gap wedges started being recommended / marketed.

Edited March 12, 2016 by natureboy

[Mike Boatright]

5 hours ago, natureboy said:

Yep. The Big Bertha in '91 started turning the design corner on CC's (higher MOI) for equal weight and then titanium came in.

I also think that loft creep with irons began well before the widespread adoption of low CG's and flexing faces. Just look when gap wedges started being recommended / marketed.

Good point very true

[mvmac]

On 3/7/2016 at 1:43 AM, Mike Boatright said:

Persimmon woods like this one below were 200 or 250 cc and just felt good and performed very well in terms of workability.

Also known as gear effect 

5 hours ago, natureboy said:

I also think that loft creep with irons began well before the widespread adoption of low CG's and flexing faces.

I'm not sure about that. PING Eye 2 irons had stronger lofts than muscleback irons of the same era didn't they? Same thing with 845's and Lynx Parallax irons which where also popular low cg offerings. By low CG I mean low for that time. 

[natureboy]

5 hours ago, mvmac said:

I'm not sure about that. PING Eye 2 irons had stronger lofts than muscleback irons of the same era didn't they? Same thing with 845's and Lynx Parallax irons which where also popular low cg offerings. By low CG I mean low for that time. 

Probably. And I did forget they were introduced in 1982. The cavity back design concepts spread pretty fast, eventually prompting a model from even Hogan in 1991. So lower CG's meant lowering the loft how much? Couldn't they have matched it to the prior distance the club sent the ball for a given SS - just at a higher trajectory? Instead they lowered the lofts enough so that the changed ball flight also resulted in more distance. The ultimate core motivation of cavity back / game improvement tech is about distance and its relationship to scoring, even if the loft changes are 'only' a design byproduct.

I also meant that even Hogan had his lofts a touch strong for his era, and I expect there was some gradual (much slower than 80's - 90's) loft creep among traditional muscleback / blade manufacturers from the 50's to 70's too.

Edited March 12, 2016 by natureboy

[SavvySwede]

3 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Mike, 

Ping Eye2 (not Eye2+ with square grooves) had fairly traditional lofts if memory serves me correctly...

1- 16 2-18.5 3-21 4-24.5 5-28 6-32 7-36 8-40 9-45 W-50.5 S-57.5 L-61

I could be a half a degree off on the longer irons, but I think the short irons are correct...

But what you were saying about stronger lofts in comparison to the blades, is kinda true, I mean most forged irons in that era were a 49-51° PW but the longer irons were still pretty weak like 20° 2-iron, A lot of OEMs in the 80s and 90s tried to keep their player's offerings fairly traditionally lofted.

I've said this before, I'll say it again, "Decreasing Loft Effect" caused by lower CG, has been the most noticeable in GI/SGI/UGI irons. Player's clubs, though have a slightly lower CG than in yesteryear, hasn't been effected as much by the "decreasing loft effect"

After some Googling, the Driver that Daly won the 1991 PGA with was the Cobra Ultramid... 

I wouldn't say the original Eye2 were traditional in their lofts. They were about a club stronger across most the set. They likely chose to stretch out the lofts lower irons a bit because they figured no one would be willing to buy a gap wedge.

Old       Eye2

P-52*    50.5*
9-48*    45*
8-44*    40*
7-40*    36*
6-36*    32*
5-32*    28*
4-28*    24.5*
3-24*    21*
2-20*    18.5*
1-16*    16* 

[mvmac]

18 hours ago, natureboy said:

So lower CG's meant lowering the loft how much?

Lofts have gotten stronger as CG's have gotten lower, MOI further from the face.