Length, Lie, maybe both?

[guitman423]

My long irons 3 and 4 have a massive sh**k problem I can't seem to shake. I have never been fitted, but this issue followed me with a recent club change. Standard length clubs. All other clubs I am happy with.

I noticed with my 3 and 4 that the toe is up at address. My long irons always feel floppy and heavy, I feel like I am reaching, and promote a really flat and fanning swing plane, resulting in me round-housing the ball to the outside and thus the hozzle hit. If I choke up to a flat address I found consistent pure long shots, a steeper plane and balanced swing feel, great distance. But, I have to choke 3-4 inches down the grip almost to the metal for these results.

I have found many opinions. Hank Haney says always address flat from driver to putter. Others say always address toe up to accommodate shaft flex upon impact. Should I consider shortening my long irons? Or just adjusting the lie to my swing? What questions should I ask the club fitter? Several instructors have looked and never been able to fix this issue, but no one has ever mentioned club fitting as a possibility. I have a lot to work on, but in general I am happy with my game and my swing except for the long irons.

I am 6'-1", and by Internet measurements (Ping) I should be using standard length clubs with .25 extra. I can't imagine going any longer.

Thanks!

12.5 Handicap.

 

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, guitman423 said:

Others say always address toe up to accommodate shaft flex upon impact. Should I consider shortening my long irons? Or just adjusting the lie to my swing? What questions should I ask the club fitter?

The ones you listed above. 

At address there will be some toe up. The club does droop a bit due to the weight of the clubhead pulling downward on the shaft. It's not much though. 

That of course depends on your swing as well. How you deliver the club can influence lie angle as well. 

12 minutes ago, guitman423 said:

I am 6'-1", and by Internet measurements (Ping) I should be using standard length clubs with .25 extra. I can't imagine going any longer.

Note that the +0.25 inches from PING is for their irons only. There is no industry standard on shaft length. 

 

[guitman423]

17 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

The ones you listed above. 

At address there will be some toe up. The club does droop a bit due to the weight of the clubhead pulling downward on the shaft. It's not much though. 

That of course depends on your swing as well. How you deliver the club can influence lie angle as well. 

Note that the +0.25 inches from PING is for their irons only. There is no industry standard on shaft length. 

 

Best to get on a lie board I guess, I have never done that before. Good call on the PING tool, I have Nike clubs.

Thanks!

[saevel25]

25 minutes ago, guitman423 said:

Best to get on a lie board I guess, I have never done that before. Good call on the PING tool, I have Nike clubs.

Thanks!

Here is a tip. Get a dry erase marker and one of those ball alignment drawing tools. Draw a line on the ball and sit it vertically on a tee. Then hit the ball. If the mark on the clubface is not vertical then your lie angles are off at impact. 

Just a different option than the lie angle board. 

[guitman423]

Posted swing videos and update on my thoughts. It may be my swing plane is at fault afterall...

 

Also saevel25, after seeing your videos, sounds like we may be suffering a similar unmentionable issue?

[chilepepper]

Could your set up/ stance be a bit off?

[Gator Hazard]

18 minutes ago, chilepepper said:

Could your set up/ stance be a bit off?

I'm a hacker but was wondering the same. Perhaps at address are a few inches too far away from ball and reaching out too much which may cause issue. But obviously will defer to @saevel25's expertise and advice. Long irons are hard to hit. 

[Buckeyebowman]

Hard to tell from here, but from what you have posted, and if you have a good club fitter that you use, the first thing I would do would have him check the lie angles on your 3 & 4 irons vs the rest of your set. Obvious place to start, no?

Have him check all the club specs. Make sure the lengths, lofts, are right as well. If necessary, have him do a frequency matching on the shafts. Don't know what you have, but they could be a partial step down off. I kind of doubt that, but, all these clubs have to be assembled by somebody, and maybe your "somebody" was having a bad day!

I'd also ask how you hit the clubs longer than your 3 & 4 iron. Do you see contact a little closer to the heel on those as opposed to others? It could be that as the clubs get longer you begin to "throw your hosel" at the ball.

[Lilfrier]

I wouldn't say I'm the same, but I have similar issues that scare me off of my 4i a lot. I have lengthened shafts because of my height, and it's pretty much a good thing. However, I don't hit my 4i well. I need to try choking up on it sometime, to see if that helps. Usually, I have a bit of a straighter stance with it. I similarly stand up and adjust my stance with my 3H, because it doesn't feel right in my normal stance, and the head is tilted noticeably at address. I guess I just decided that standing up a bit on those clubs was easier than adjusting my grip or paying to have the clubs cut.