Kinematic Sequence Question

[Ty_Webb]

When you swing to the top of the backswing, as I understand it, generally speaking your shoulders will be turned as far further than your hips as you are able. So if your hips turn 45° and your shoulders turn 90°, then that 45° differential is about as extreme as you are capable of. That may not be true, but it's how it feels to me.

If that is true, and the kinematic sequence is supposed to see your hips go before your shoulders, how is that possible? I think I have a mental block about how the hips can go first if the shoulders are fully turned past the hips already. If the hips start to move back towards the ball and the shoulders don't, then you're increasing the difference between hip turn and shoulder turn. Can anyone help me understand how that works.

To expand on this a little - if it isn't true that you want to maximize that differential at the top of the backswing, does that mean you'd be better off holding something in reserve? i.e. turning a little bit less?

Edited November 8, 2017 by Ty_Webb

[billchao]

15 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

If the hips start to move back towards the ball and the shoulders don't, then you're increasing the difference between hip turn and shoulder turn. Can anyone help me understand how that works.

It's a very brief increase in the difference between the turn of your shoulders and your hips called the X-Factor Stretch. Ideally, your shoulders rotate at a faster rate than your hips so they "catch up" and your turn is in sync, but technically speaking, even at impact there is still a difference between the two (average PGA pro is 40° open with the hips and 15° open with the shoulders).

Rotating the hips first allows you to rotate your shoulders faster which allows you to swing your arms and thus, the club faster.

BTW, feel isn't real. Some people don't need to feel the hips firing first but they still do.

[iacas]

It's about when each segment begins going forward and when they peak. The hips never really reach the speed of the torso, the torso never really reaches the speed of the arms/hands, and the hands never really reach the speed of the clubhead.

It's like cracking a whip, if the whip were four different segments. You move the first part, it peaks and imparts energy to the second part, which then peaks and imparts energy to the next part…

[Ty_Webb]

Interesting - so on that chart it looks like all four of them really start rotating in a positive direction at virtually the same point. Each one hits its peak in order, but starting motion is virtually indistinguishable. The reason for my question is that my hips and shoulders start at the same time. I was trying to make a slow motion swing so I could at least get the feeling of my hips going first. I found that to be extremely difficult because my shoulders are starting from a point of basically fully turned past my hips. I know that each step moves faster than the previous one eventually. I think it would be pretty difficult not to do that given the different distances that each one has to cover to get to impact. 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Interesting - so on that chart it looks like all four of them really start rotating in a positive direction at virtually the same point.

Some do. Some don't.

There's one with a bit more separation.

5 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

The reason for my question is that my hips and shoulders start at the same time. I was trying to make a slow motion swing so I could at least get the feeling of my hips going first. I found that to be extremely difficult because my shoulders are starting from a point of basically fully turned past my hips. I know that each step moves faster than the previous one eventually. I think it would be pretty difficult not to do that given the different distances that each one has to cover to get to impact. 

Some people's hips move first. Other people's don't. I think the peak order matters more than whether the hips start forward while the arms are still going back.