inthehole

you're welcome

I too fought the dastardly low duck hook something awful this year - as you say it is a round killer, absolutely demoralizing. I've golfed seriously for 14 years and this just crept in this year - CONSISTENTLY, never ever had to deal with it before. Like you, it only affects my driver, not hybrids/irons. So I fought it all year and spent alot of time trying everything under the sun to fix it. At end of season, after an incredible amount of work, I did fix it. It turned out to be a simple fix - it is a grip issue (for me). I always set up with my driver with club head lag like the rest of my clubs. My fix was to set up straight to the ball - NO LAG (no shaft lean). What this does is slightly rotate the grip in your hands ... automatically, You won't have to intentionally change anything with your grip. It will feel really weird, but lock in the grip with no shaft lean / clubhead lag & swing normally. Its pure f'n magic - completely fixed my low short duck hook without any other change in setup or swing, ball position, ball height, etc. Back to hitting nice high straight balls, even a tad of fade sometimes, which i'm fine with. Grip still feels really strange & I have to ingrain it in my muscle memory over the winter indoors, but can't argue with the cnosistent results the last 7 or 8 rounds of the season.... absolutely mind blowing what a simple little change can do.

Never have. Now, don't take it the wrong way but I kind of get a sense of pride that I got to be fairly respectable golfer by reading books and digging deep into it on these discussion boards and watching golf channel (used to be Michael Breed back then) when I was learning the game. I picked up the game later in life (mid-40's) so I know I'll never be a good golfer ... I just like the challenge of doing my homework and learning things for myself ...

All I can say is the golf gods DO NOT give up sub 80 rounds easy. I was on a roll a few years ago & shot 79 twice (both stellar putting days). Since that time I bet I've shot 80 or 81 at least a dozen times (probably closer to 15 times) - its really getting annoying. I think the golf gods hate me ...

my game is in the tank. Swing just feels wonky and uncoordinated. Everything is a struggle. Shot after shot is fat, fighting a weak fade off the tee. Trying to fix it with about 5 swing thoughts on every shot - its just a slump (hopefully I can dig my way out of it eventually). So, my most uplifting thought of late is I got to play an enjoyable round with my wife recently ... we tore up the score card after about the fifth hole and had a great day after that.

Problem with MB is that every time I've taken vacations to play there in the winter, you are forced to pay top dollar - there are NO tee time deals to be had. NONE. EVER. There are so many courses in MB, and I swear there must be an agreement between them that they vow to not break the code of a discounted winter tee time. I get it that winter is their peak, money making season ... but wouldn't you think just one of the over 100 decent courses (not even the dog tracks offer much of a discount) would offer some kind of discounted tee times - heck, I'd even take a twilight discount ... nope. Anyways, rant over ... MB doesn't fare well for this golf bottomfeeder. When I retire in a few years, I'm hunting for someplace with good bass fishing and cheap golf year round ... and it won't be MB

Well, at least my method of asking first if the person would like some input that I think would help them seems to be the right way to approach this quandary ...

Thanks for that thread ! I remembered another thing about my lack of putting ability ... I've only broken 80 twice, and can anyone guess what the common denominator was each time ? wait for it ... Putting was off the chart stellar (for me) in both of those rounds. It was automatic - it was like the ball had eyes. I'm surprised I'm the ONLY one who responded to the poll who feels putting is their achilles heel. Now I'm even more depressed about the sad state of my putting...

Last round of the year, I shot an 86 with 39 putts. If that's not an indication that I suck at putting, I don't know what is. My old overweight butt has no aspiration to be a scratch golfer - but I am completely confident in that my putting is clearly what is holding me back from breaking 80 consistently.

PUTTING. Rest of my game is pretty solid for somebody that took up golf late in life (50's now) ... I just simply can not read putts & have no (consistent) touch on the greens. I get ever so slightly better from year to year, but compared to the rest of my game, putting is downright pitiful. You ?

First thing - never ever even consider offering to give advice unless you are a dramatically better player than the person you're interacting with. You have to gauge the person ... if he's a hot head struggling like hell and getting all bent out of shape - I've learned to not give advice, no matter how much I want to. How I learned this was I was paired with a young guy several years ago that was swinging out of his shoes and spraying the ball 100 yards deep into the woods on the right every time, and I was ham and egging my easy tempo controlled swing right down the pipe (I think that annoyed him) ... it was getting towards the end of the round & I couldn't take it anymore ... I said I've put alot of time into developing a stack & tilt swing and it really works for me & it might help you ... he proceeded to say - yeah, I noticed that, and my buddy a college golfer tole me I should stay as far away from that as I can (again, after I was PIPING drives down the center of the fairway all day and he lost probably 15 balls in the woods to that point - it was bad) ... well, that was my aha moment - I am extremely careful to judge the personality type before offering advice now. If it's a likable, easy going person that I think might benefit from no more than one simple tip, I'll start the conversation off something like ... "would you mind if I gave you one tip that I think could really help you" - then you at least give them the opportunity to say no (once a guy told me "my coach has me working on _____, so I'd rather not confuse what I'm working on" .... perfect, I at least gave him the opportunity to tell me no and we're all good - but more commonly, that personality type embraces any feedback they can get from a better player to help them out - I know I did when I was green and struggling. If the person has a personality type somewhere in between these two and I'm not sure ... always better to keep your mouth shut

I second that - I fully support ladies golf ... some of the best golf I've played has been with my wife ... not sure why, maybe she's my good luck charm

My wife and I were playing in Tampa on vacation a few years ago & were paired with a single (woman, in her early to mid 30's). She was a local, so we invited her to tee off first. I was playing the white tee's and she walked back to the blue tee's ... I almost instinctively said to her the ladies tee's were up in front where my wife tee's off from. Turns out was the best decision of my life to not say anything and watch her walk back to the blue tee's. First sign I didn't notice was the Titleist AP2 forged irons in her bag. Second sign was that lovely full release and extension with her driver that young limber players like Michele Wie have. Wife looks at me and mutters under her breath - lets see you beat THAT (I hit 240-ish)!! Needless to say, I didn't. She had to be out there around 250-260 - rest of her game was solid too. Of course I instinctively tried to keep pace with her & began overswinging & my game went to hell. I finished the round a bit demoralized, but she was very pleasant and we enjoyed a nice afternoon, and I have to say I found it sexy as hell to see a woman hit a golf ball like that...

how could it not work for all but the elite players ? Hitting it center face vs perimeter strike seems pretty darn important ...

I will deeply miss JM's broadcasting. I LOVED his ability to say it like it is without a filter - NOBODY else will be able to bring that to golf. I wish him well, but am sure gonna miss him...

I fit the swing speed parameters you mentioned. This is exactly why through experimentation with several drivers over the years, I cut 1-1/4" off my drivers so that I make consistent center face contact. For me, the result is dramatically better than using a full length shaft & having a huge distance variation due to inconsistent center face contact. A nicely struck drive with my shorter driver will fly way past a toe or heel shot with a longer one - EVERY time. It's a no brainer for the mid to higher hcp players to shorter their drivers IMHO, unless you have unlimited range time to hone your swing and can take consistent advantage of a full length shaft ...

A few of my fave's ... - After teeing it up too high and hitting a short moon ball off the top edge of the crown, a woman in my group once said ... "like an elephants butt ... high and stinky" - after making a 40 footer with break, an old guy I was paired up with mumbled ... "like it had eyes" - after shaking his head in disbelief, my brother let this one go in our foursome after I ran a 6 foot putt 7 ft past the hole ... "on the greens, you have the touch of a rapist"

I have a Cleveland forged gap wedge & prefer the Mizuno cavity backed version that matches my set for full shots and especially greenside chipping (the leading edge of the cavity backed gap wedge isn't as sharp as a blade style wedge - doesn't dig in nearly as much for greenside chipping = not as many chunkers). I do use the Cleveland sand and lob wedges, as my set didn't come with either. Lastly, having bounce options makes sense for GOOD players - but is dramatically overblown for lesser players who don't often manipulate the club face.

I'm all about shortening my drivers - I just make better center club face contact with a shorter shaft. It works out exponentially better for me than trying to hit a full length driver. Heck, Tiger even shortens his driver, so thats good enough for me ...

I'm always the odd man out in these discussions. First thing is that the iron sets you're talking about are both several years old, so getting a fitting is NOT an option. Either of those sets will be dramatically better than the clubs you're playing now. Don't sweat it - can't go wrong either way at this stage of your game. I would focus on the irons you really like the way they look at address - nothing worse than getting new clubs that every time you look down at them, you wish you got something else. Caveat ... assuming you're standard height, between 5'9" and 6'2" - standard length would be fine. If you're shorter or taller, you really might need to have the clubs shortened or lengthened to fit your stature. Also, take note of the flex ... most men I know seem to feel the need to get stiff flex ... unless you have a high swing speed, regular flex may fit you better. Otherwise, get some new clubs and enjoy them - you'll be glad you did. In a few years when you get your hcp down, then worry about dropping some major $ on primo clubs that come with a fitting.

I took out the 4i (mostly only carried it for punch out shots anyways) - I can lean on the 5h if necessary to get close to 4i distance. I've tried using excessive club head lag with a more conventional ball position setup with the 4 iron to keep it low & it really feels odd & didn't work for me as well as just moving the ball way back with a slightly abbreviated backswing (I do use Mizuno JPX825 cavity back irons, which launch high). I'm keeping an open mind - I'm hopeful I'm going to like this option as I don't have to change my swing & the shot seems to come up often enough to justify the whole project (only downside I can see is that it will surely not work from the deep rough, which is pretty much jail for me even if I'm not under a tree).

I used to play a Nickent 7W, but found it wasn't as good out of the rough as a comparative 4h, so I've bonded with the hybrids last few seasons. It was nearly the perfect narrow fairway tee shot club though, I'll give it that

First, let me say all I play is heavily wooded mountain courses where tree trouble exists on either side of the fairway on nearly every tee shot. I've gotten pretty good out of necessity at hitting low liner recovery shots with a 4 iron but I have to play the ball BEHIND my rear foot - works good when it works good, but it's a bit unorthodox and not 100% reliable. I bet I'm forced to play this shot at least 4-5X on average per round on the courses I play. So, my mad scientist brain got to thinking ... I need a dedicated club that is capable of chucking low line drives under trees, RELIABLY. So, I came up with this (you may want to grab a chair if you're of weak constitution) ... I bought an old Ping 1 iron, and cut it down to the length of a 5 iron to make it easy to hit. Beauty is I don't have to play it behind my rear foot anymore to hit a screaming low liner. Went to the range & gave it a workout today ... I play it a bit inside the rear foot and BANG, it manufactures one after the other low line drives running out well over 150 yds - it already seems so much more reliable than playing a 4 iron behind the rear foot. For my lackluster game and the courses I play, I think this might be my get out of jail free club ... lets have your thoughts, am I onto something ??

I'm in my mid-50's & ham and egg it out there 230ish ON AVERAGE. I know my game and my limitations. I play with a bunch of younger guys in my office. I love beating the cocky young guns that hit it 30 - 40 yds past me off the tee (one guy in particular does hit it a legit 280 yds avg, but can't control it). It seems to be an ego thing - everybody in that age group wants to hit it long ... but I do get a twisted sense of accomplishment cutting them off at the knees when I put my 6 or 7 iron on (or at least close to) the green, while they're in the bunker or deep rough coming in with their 9 iron's ....

Jamie nails the Jackass Bad Grandpa movie voice perfect after fatting the pitch shot - "good one grampa ... just shutuppppp Danny" - LOL LOL