disco111

Had the same surgery around the same time frame. Still get one of those low back jolts every once in awhile (at the most inopportune times). When I was able to start playing again, about 6 months after (Doc wanted me to get stronger back there first before I tried golfing) I found myself with limited shoulder turn - partially because I was nervous about re injury, so I started to use an abbreviated half swing and player punch shots. It calls for above average wrist input, but it doesn't take all that long to get use to it. The plus factor on this is that I could never hook a ball if my life depended on it and now I can hook with the best of them. In time, you may be able to elongate your backswing, but don't force it, it will start to happen naturally, but it will only go so far so you'll have to be happy with what you get. You may find that with this new swing, you'll get better control (once you get it second nature) and your scoring will improve. Just convince yourself that it's a good swing alternative and with a little practice, you'll be back on your game. As far as the pain goes, i use cool gels and alternate with icy hot. I also wore one of those back wraps, just for a little added peace of mind. In addition, equipment changes were the order of the day. All clubs are senior graphite with mid sized grips and lower compression balls. Also,become a short game genie..........

We have 4 par 3's and everyone throws in 4 bucks. Closest to the hole on the par 3's wins that hole and 1/4 the pot. You must par the hole to win though. If you 3 putt then that's a carry over and it get added to the other 3 holes. If your on, you can win a few bucks just on these alone. It's been done that only one hole was made and that person won all 4 of the greenies because nobody hit the other 3 or if they did, they 3 putted. So you have say 20 guys playing and you happen to win one or two, that's 40 bucks your up. Not bad for just a one shot and 2 putt. Played today and got some paybacks. Last par 3, 210yds, nutted a 3wd and came to 5 feet of the pin. Lipped out but had the greenie and got 20 bucks back. 16 buck profit, not all that bad. Only problem is that those shots are far from normal at that distance. It was just a good day..........

"We just throw in 5 for skins and 4 for greenies (that's the main game for everybody, but what you do in your own group is over this). I really couldn't play total score against these guys, either net or gross. That 5 you see is more like a 10 now." This was in my second posting and it's easy to see how it could have been over looked. In truth, that 5 listed was from at least 5 to 8 years ago and from the Blue (championship) tees. Since then, time and injuries have taken their toll on the body, but not the mind. I still think i can bring it, but I've slowly come to the realization that soft shafts and low compression balls can't make up for lack of swing speed. It sucks getting old! As for the skins and greenies, their played at scratch. The only differential, as of now is that they have let myself and 2 or 3 other over 50 guys, move up to the whites. Even with this, many times with whomever sets the tee markers, there's at most one club difference and perhaps even less. I do appreciate all the replies and suggestions. I'm just ranting. I'll just have to bone up on my short game and start some mind games with them. Something along these lines Hey Mitch!, just before you take the club back do you inhale or exhale? Wow, I know there's wind above the trees, but you just can't feel it down here. Last time I had that putt it broke the opposite way.............and so on....Old age and treachery can overcome youth and ability - so they say.......

Lots of reply's but what I'm finding out here is that the "play it forward" seems to be falling on def ears. Even the pro tournaments that had both the seniors and ladies along with regular tour players all played from different tees. Why then should an amature senior play from the same tees as young college and local PGA pros. Yes we have 2 or 3 that play in our game from time to time and the young guns all have low single or scratch hdcps. The whole idea of having different tees is to make the game level, as much as possible. There is no "preoccupation" with hitting par 5's in two..........just stating a fact that at least half of the guys can and do get home in two or at least green side left or right. Beats the hell out of hitting a 5 or 6 for your third when their putting or chipping for eagle. But if as you say "been there" then you know what i mean. Now there's no way a 70+ senior is going to get back to a 5, unless he starts to play from the senior tees, which again, are designed to make up for the fact that your old and can't hit it that far anymore. As for the other seniors, my game, for whatever reason is better than the majority of them and when I did play with them, they used the senior tees and I played the whites, but they still would rather I not join them. I'm even at least 10 years older than most of them, but that another drama line. As I stated before, I'm stuck in a sort of limbo. If I want to play in a competitive format, I've got no choice but to play with the current group. But in order to be really competitive or at least an attempt to be, the tee adjustments need to be made. Other than this, all that's left is go play by myself and probably start to loose interest in the game.

We just throw in 5 for skins and 4 for greenies (that's the main game for everybody, but what you do in your own group is over this). I really couldn't play total score against these guys, either net or gross. That 5 you see is more like a 10 now. I should change that...... I'm just looking to try an level the playing field. Our par 3's (4 of them ) can average anywhere from 210 to 250 from the back tees and when I had to play from there, I was hitting 3wds or driver against their 4 or 5 irons. Moving up to the whites and then the blues get changed also, they average for me anywhere from 175 to 190. While they now hit a 6 or 5 with their adjusted tee, I'm hitting 4 or 3. If I hit from the senior tees, we're hitting the same clubs. The par 4 I can deal with, but the par 5's I'm at a very big distance disadvantage. They can get hone in 2 most days and if I hit from the seniors then I can get there in 2 with 2 really good shots. From the whites, no way even on my best day.

Should you base playing tees upon your age or hdcp? I'm 72, but still have a half way decent game. My weekend group is mostly younger flat bellies that can really move the ball. Now even though they have finally allowed me to play from the white tees (normal men's tees) and they play from the blues, they still out drive me by 60 to 100 yds. Par 5's are were I really get clobbered, but they totally balk at letting me go to the senior tees. The second part of my delima is that the seniors that play at our club don't want me in their groups, so I'm kind of stuck in limbo. The competition is what keeps my interest alive, but even though we play for only a few bucks a round (skins and greenies), I'm kind of tired of being shut out every time I play. Open to any and all suggestions.

GREEN LIVES MATTER Today I Placed my Smith & Wesson .357 Mag revolver on the table right next to my front door. I left 6 cartridges beside it, then left it alone and went about my business. While I was gone, the mailman delivered my mail, the neighbor's son across the street mowed the yard, a girl walked her dog down the street, and quite a few cars stopped at the "stop" sign near the front of my house. After about an hour, I checked on the gun. It was quietly sitting there, right where I had left it. It had not moved itself outside. It had not killed anyone. Certainly, even with the Numerous opportunities it had presented to do that. In fact, it had not even loaded itself. Well you can imagine my surprise, with all the hype by the Left and the media about how dangerous guns are and How They kill people. Either the media is wrong or I'm in possession of the laziest gun in the world. The United States is 3rd in Murders Throughout The World. But if you take out just 5 'left-wing' cities: Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, St Louis and New Orleans -- the United States is 4th from the bottom, in the ENTIRE World, for Murders. These 5 Cities are controlled by Democrats. They also have The Toughest Gun Control Laws in the USA. It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data, right? Well, I'm off to check on my spoons. I hear they 're making people fat. Just saying...

Unofficial Rule-----1) On a par 4, never hit your second when their on the green. 2) Par 5's - if you think you can reach or on the off chance that you hit "THE" shot, wait. - You will most likely screw it up because, in the back of your mind, there will be that hint of doubt/speculation as to should I hit. Besides, nothing is gained by unintentionally pushing the group in front. Many moons ago, played with a friend that was an overly well built specimen (6'5"-260 solid muscle). Third hole, group behind launched one over our heads, late "four call" and we waved OK. 5th hole, again one came whistling by, this time no "fore call". We just turned and looked back. 8th hole, as they say third time is a charm, another came bouncing at us and hit the cart. This time the big guy grabbed his 5 iron and proceeded to send that ball into the water hazard. Well apparently this pissed the guys behind and they came racing down the fairway, but when they got close enough to see the size of this guy, they made an abrupt 180 and that was the last we ever saw of them. Granted, these guys had no golf etiquette what so ever and apparently, thought it was great fun to play chicken with a golf ball, We just had to remember the old saying,......."you can't fix stupid"

Our weekend crew can range from 8 to 20 players and the handicaps range from 15 to scratch. We play $5 skins and $4 greenies game. We make it as fair as possible with age and hdcp tee adjustments. No one really gets hurt (unless they have an additional internal game of wolf or side bets - but that's their problem). Although most just enjoy the game for itself, a little wager does offer itself to more focus and better shot deliberations. For the lesser players, myself included, that one good shot can result in a nice return and just makes the day a little more productive. Want to test your metal, you have a 4 footer left for par on the green (you've hit the closet to the pin on the par 3, but you have to make par to win it and you already hit a lousy first putt and you know it's worth about $20), you'll find out fairly quickly just how good you deal with a little pressure. Now just imagine, that putt is for a big championship or to just make the cut to make it to the next stop. We all did this as kids growing up, but now there's actually something real on the line. I know it gets my juices flowing - well at least moving a little, at my age nothing really flows anymore and granted, it's not for everyone, but it does add a little spice to the game.

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/05/drug-resistant-bacteria-found-along-olympic-beaches-in-rio/21424302/ Wonder if this new news will have a bigger fall out than the zika virus.........This to me is far more serious than zika, at least from what we know.......but this crap could kill you.

I'd probably still 3 putt it!..........

I'm in favor of replacing golf with perhaps synchronized farting or maybe long range tobacco spitting or even better, loud belching. You could even have a team relay combining all three...............Oh wait!...........never mind, we already have this, it's called a redneck picnic........

Well at 72+, like many I've gone to light weight graphite "R" shafts in the irons, a 13 degree TM Burner driver with a senior shaft. I also play a 3 wood with an "L" shaft (at most, only use it for 3 holes - par 5 second shot), but find I hit it fairly well when I don't attempt to kill it. Also play lower compression balls (mostly Wilson's), but the biggest thing, at least IMO, is attitude. Even though I play against the flat belly crowd, I realize that I can't match their distance, even from the white tee's, so I just play my game and try to position myself better for the second shot. I also play a lot of bump and runs and will not hesitate to use the putter from the fringe or even from 10 yards out, if it's a tight lie. All in all, I play a more dictated game with better results than when I was younger and played "bash ball"...........

Jon Rahm ................When I watch him swing, it brings back reflections of Arnold Palmer, the way he attacks the ball. Plus that "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead" attitude.........He's going to be interesting to watch............

Did a cursory search and nothing popped, so here's my question. Why did the rules makers change the way we drop (was over the shoulder and now it's arms length in front). Not looking to start any kind of an uproar, just really curious as to the why..............

Fear not you warriors of the 3 putt tribe, the overlords of golf will smite those that partake of this unholy practice, just as they have against the LP and BP.

No your not trying to educate and yes you are attempting to talk down. You totally refuse to answer a question that has been asked from several posters and you continue to stand behind it's your way and nothing else has any place in the discussion. You keep referring to rules structure and people that haven't a clue, but that's not talking down in your book! Nobody has stipulated anything about logic of a rule that you find irrevocable, even though it's been done. You offered your reasoning behind the rule and again you wish to totally remove the fact that it's been done before, so your rational is flawed. Abu3baid's post reflects the crux of the discussion and asks a most valid question, which either way it's answered, puts those making the rules in a not so favorable light.

No!...........The question was asked - why was it rejected and the boilerplate answer was "to adhere to the principles", but yet the powers that be/were apparently did not and willingly sought a change. The main question, at least for me is, why did they offer the change and then why was it rescinded? (OB once and LB twice). You wish to use the term "tested", I guess the first test failed and so they thought a second should be conducted? I will reiterate once more, just because it's a rule, it does not make it right and if it should prove to be for the betterment of the game, then so be it. But, if it's seemingly a detriment, then change should be allowed. It happened once, twice, then perhaps a third time as they say, is a charm. I fully realize that I personally am not going to change the minds of the USGA and the R&A and none of this forums rules guardians, but it's a discussion on what could or should be changed and I'm sorry, but the position has already been established that it can and did happen and perhaps it should happen again.

So this particular rule was change not once, but twice and apparently the powers that were, most likely did not read or care for offerings of R Tuft. As stated prior, there were only 13 original rules and now we have a book. It's great that folks wish to hold to the "principles behind the rules", but has the USGA and R&A really adhered to those principles, in needing a book to define the rules, because the game has drastically changed from then to now? Now as to what's sacrilegious, apparently it's folks wishing to be the torch carrier and invoking the principles of the game rebuttal, when they are aghast at the presumption that someone would have the audacity to voice their displeasure with a rule and wishing it would changed. But somehow they fail to see or just overlook the fact that it's been done in the past and it surely can done again in the future. Suffice to say, we'll just agree to disagree on the subject.

And again!...................Who didn't like it and why?................Between 1960 and now, the Pro's in the 80's, via Ray Floyd, when he was on the players board, lobbied for that change. In all honesty, I've been playing the game since the late 50's and never heard of the OB rule being lifted. Granted, I wasn't playing USGA events, but the adults that were teaching me the game, never referenced it. Not saying it didn't happen, but if it was changed once, it could be changed again.

!960 - Interesting, did not know that, but have to wonder why it wasn't successful. At any rate, this is a rules change that people would like to see, so up and until that happens it's a moot point. As far as the balls in the DEEP water and OB being the same, it's because neither can be played, which was the point of the comparison. Both were / are bad shots and just because one shot exceeds the boundaries of the course, why should the penalty be so much more sever for one over the other? This is the crux of the argument for the rules change. Just because it's a given rule, does not make it fair. When we look at the original one page 13 rules, they were seemingly covering the bases, but now we have a book. Rules can and have changed for the betterment of the game, remember when players were allowed to stymie the opponent. Again, it's a position that folks would like to see changed.

Sorry about the run on within your post. What is under discussion is what folks apparently want to see in the rules changes. As for the OB stroke and distance, even the pro's lobbied for that change some years ago, so we're not alone in that aspect. There is no real difference between going into the pond (balls under water and can't be played) and ball going OB. Both balls cannot be played, but one is offered a better resolution than the other. Granted, it's the rule and one of the original 13 from the 1700's, but again, folks would like to have that rule amended and most likely for the good of the game.

OK, lets look at another example that would simplify. Par 5 dog leg right. Pond on the right and OB chain link fence on the left. Player 1 goes into the pond while player 2 is OB. Player 1 now drops from the pond and is hitting 3 with the possibility of getting to the green in 4 and hopefully 1 putting for a par. Mean while, player 2 hits 3 from back on the tee box and subjects himself not only stroke and distance, but the off chance that the pond or OB raises it's ugly head again. In this case, it's not only double but possibly triple the penalty. So while player 1 comes away with a possible par or a bogey, player 2 at best could have a double if he stays in play but could fair far worse upwards of a 10. In this instance the penalty far outweighs the crime. If memory serves, didn't they change a ruling that there can be no internal OB's on a golf course. I know on a local course that had such a hole and when they had the state am qualifier there some years ago, that hole and the OB stakes were gone and are still gone.

Of course it became personal, iacas made it that way. Anytime you make a determination that someone knows nothing and then you continue on to lambaste, it's most assuredly personal. Now I see disciples also want to jump on the band wagon and echo his sentiments. Et tu Brute......... This for iacas man to man. You sir, like to think yourself as above us. You also like to play with words and definitions. Your retort about Tiger not using a construction crew is a perfect example. You know what the intent was, but yet you deferred to your self arrogance and attempted to play a very lame rebuttal card. I know the rules, at least the majority that come into everyday play and it's doubtful that you know all the rules and the explanations that are associated with them. It's very doubtful that anyone knows everything in that rule book, but it's outrageously condescending to think that someone who's been in golf for over 50 years knows nothing. This is my final response to this thread, for it became a circle jerk and got way out of civility. To all, have a nice day

To take each rebuttal you posed one on one, could be a waste of time, but what the heck. Go back and re-read what you wrote, because most of it, if not all is beyond words. You talk about blathering, you have cornered the market on that with your post. Your last tirade on loose impediments takes the cake. The loose impediment reference was for Tiger getting a construction crew to move what must have been a 2,000 lb boulder and your response was a weightlifter caddie and other nonsense. Of course that rule was adjusted to not allow such a thing again. You know what transpired, do you think anyone could have moved that boulder by themselves? Since you felt free and morally obligated to say and feel that I know nothing, just because you wrote some book and you presumably have a card that states your a professional, your words say much more. Very condescending to say the least.Nobody said or addressed that we should do away with the 5% of the rules that we generally don't come in contact with. It was stipulated that rendering rules more concise and user friendly (examples were given), could be a plan of action. As for every course and what could happen, what you proposed was totally overkill. It was already offered, by one of your counterparts, who made the initial reference that the 95 percentile was what most of us played under, including yourself. If anyone ever confronted all those non-overkill situations during the course of a round, well I'm at a loss for words for such arrogance. For the record, I have been on local tournament rules committee and we had to implement a ruling that didn't have a reference in the rule book. Every trap on the course was totally filled with water, so the ruling became free drop out of the bunkers (total common sense). Now granted, this was quite a few years ago and we didn't need authorization from the USGA, it was a local qualifier for the state amateur. The hosting PGA pro was the chairman and it was his assessment of the situation and there was no need for USGA involvement. As for comparing other sports rule books......who cares, the subject is golf and not a QB grounding the ball or some other such nonsense. We've come to an impasse, you apparently don't care for my postings and assuredly, I the same about yours. So as far as I'm concerned, I'm finished with this thread and if you feel the need to banish me from your domain, feel free.