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Fourputt last won the day on March 8 2017

Fourputt had the most liked content!

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About Fourputt

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    Major Winner
  • Birthday 12/12/1946

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    Logan County, CO

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  1. Fourputt

    PGA Championship Rules Question

    I don't care much for your tone in this, Erik. It's demeaning. I was relating what I EXPERIENCED as a referee for my state golf association in state level tournaments (and it was essentially the same policy as when I marshaled for the Tour). We didn't touch player's ball, period. From the OP description, there was no reason in this case for the referee to do so. I stand by my opinion that he should have let the player do the ball handling. I've watched untold numbers of drops on TV and I've never seen the referee pick up a ball in a case where the ball wasn't well out of the allowed drop area.
  2. Fourputt

    PGA Championship Rules Question

    First of all, I think that the referee was wrong in touching a moving ball. From the description, the ball was probably closer to the hole than the rules allowed, and appeared to the referee to be still moving in that direction, but that doesn't excuse him for touching a ball in play. Had it been me, I would not have touched the ball period. When it came to rest in a spot not allowed under the rules, I'd have instructed the player to place it where it first touched the course on the second drop. When I was refereeing for the Colorado Golf Association, we were very specifically instructed to only interact with the players if asked a question, or if we actually observed a breach. When I worked as marshal at a PGA Tour event, we were instructed to be as invisible as possible to the players, only interacting when they initiated the contact.
  3. Fourputt

    "Rules" other players have told you

    For me, if a wager is involved, so are the Rules of Golf. That basically ends any discussion like this. We play by the rules or you play your game, I'll play by the rules, and there will be no wagering.
  4. Fourputt

    Play in the Championship flight or not?

    To add to this, I can't recall anyone being Club Champion with higher than a 5 handicap. This being a public, sort of municipal (recreation district) course, we have a lot more guys in the 10-15 handicap range than in in single digits.
  5. Fourputt

    Par 3 etiquette

    My home course tried that and tracked round times for a full season (part of the starter's job there is to track round times anyway so it wasn't anything different than we ever did). It had no discernible effect on pace of play. Unless the hole has an unusually long route from tee to green, nothing is gained, and generally players just end up waiting elsewhere. For most groups I've played in, waiting at the green for the group on the tee to hit is as long a delay as waiting on the tee for the group to putt out. All you do is move the wait to another point on the course, often it's the next tee.
  6. Fourputt

    Is pace of play (or slow play) a real problem?

    Assuming all else is equal, then breaking them up will be faster for each group, but from the first player teeing off to the final player to hole a putt the time will be about the same as for a fivesome. The difference is that the 2 groups play at a faster pace, so following players aren't held up. Most courses I play at won't even let a group of 5 out on the course.
  7. Fourputt

    Play in the Championship flight or not?

    I started enjoying golf more when I quit taking it too seriously. That doesn't mean that I quit caring or playing under the rules of golf, but I just accepted that at a 10 handicap, I was about as good as I was going to be, and I decided to be happy with that. That let me shoot a few rounds each year in the mid 70's to soothe my ego, and I kept more than 90% of my scores at 85 or less. For me, that was probably the best I have ever performed at any quasi-athletic endeavor, so it was not too difficult for me to find satisfaction in my game. Now at age 71, I'm happy to still be playing and hitting enough acceptable shots to keep bringing me out to play tournaments in the same men's club I've played in since 1989. When I joined this public course tournament club, my handicap was exactly where it is right now, but I improved rapidly during the last half of that first season, stalled at around 10 the next year and stayed there for 24 years. Weekend after next is the 54 hole club championship, and my entry is submitted. I'll probably be in 4th flight, with a course handicap of 19, a ways off from where I was at my prime, but I'll be playing with guys who are pleasant playing companions, so I'll be looking forward to a fun 3 days (Fri-Sat-Sun).
  8. Fourputt

    Play in the Championship flight or not?

    I always had that option for the Club Championship, and at one time it might have made some sense. I won 2nd flight a couple of years, and once with scores low enough to be in the top 5 in 1st flight (played scratch, like yours), but I never declared out of my normal flight. Like you, I just didn't feel that I was consistent enough to truly compete with guys sporting anywhere from scratch to a 4 or 5 handicap. I never regretted playing against the other guys at my skill level. I know that I had more fun playing in 2nd flight than I would have by putting unnecessary pressure on my game in Championship flight. In the end that's why I play, to have fun, so I've no regrets, and now those options are no longer even under consideration. So my advice would be to choose what you think you will enjoy the most.
  9. Fourputt

    Is pace of play (or slow play) a real problem?

    I was ready to comment here too. Okay I guess if you just play for fun, but for competition or for wagering, not allowed.
  10. Fourputt

    Picking Up Wrong Ball

    It still isn't a match unless it's match play. That is one of the most common misuses of a term in golf. (The other is using "opponent" in place of fellow competitor in stroke play.) It may be a competition, but if you're playing stroke play, it isn't a match. As for DQ, I'd say yes, the form of play really doesn't matter. Such an egregious act on the part of a fellow competitor or opponent is deserving of only one result. Even though you only caught him one time, there is no way of knowing how many times he did something similar without being caught. Any committee that didn't DQ a player for such acts would be remiss in it's duty.
  11. Fourputt

    Picking Up Wrong Ball

    If it's stroke play then it isn't a match, even if you and your playing companion are the only ones competing. A match is by definition, match play. When discussing the Rules of Golf, knowing and using correct terminology is important for communicating your point. First of all the rules aren't really written to address the sort of cheating that you imagine in your hypothetical. If A doesn't see the action and plays from the spot to which B moved it, it's a major problem. If I caught B doing anything like that in a competition, we would be heading straight to the committee, and he probably gets disqualified for such deliberate, calculated cheating. A ball at rest which is subsequently moved can be replaced without changing the way the hole plays out. Deflecting or stopping a ball in motion creates a situation where you really can't determine where the ball might have come to rest, or how things may have played out had the movement of the ball not been altered. That makes the second case more serious and deserving of the additional penalty.
  12. Fourputt

    Jackie Gagne: Hole-in-One-Queen or Cheater?

    Seems to me that it's clearly a cry for attention. I have 2 aces, one in August 1989 and the 2nd in May, 1990. In the 28 years since that 2nd one, nothing, and I played to a 10-11 handicap for 24 of those 28 years. I had a 16 handicap for the first one, 12 handicap for the second. The day before I made the first ace I shot what is still my personal best round of 73. That weekend was my golfing epiphany - prior to that weekend I was pretty much a bogie golfer, and after it I was nearly a single digit (at one point about 2 years later I did briefly get my index down to 9.6). I've never been able to adequately explain even to myself why I seemed to suddenly understand the game without benefit of lessons or exceptional amounts of practice. Oh, by the way, I saw both balls go into the hole, and I reacted appropriately. The first had unimpeachable witnesses, as it occurred on the 71st hole of the Club Championship, with the other 3 guys in my group, plus the 4 in the following group (there was a slight back up on the tee of the par 3). The 2nd ace I had witnesses, but it was a casual round where I was paired with a twosome of strangers whom I'd never seen before, nor did I ever play with them again.
  13. Fourputt

    Using Wrist Weights to Increase Swing Speed?

    I don't know your situation as far as general physical condition, but your layoff was at the age where distance starts to drop off dramatically for most people even when they play fairly regularly. I only had a 2 year period when I just played a few rounds during a week each year when back to the US on vacation after I was in my mid 60's - didn't have quite a full year between golf outings, and it still showed up in my length in a big way. Now at 71, I'm probably about where you say you are. It's frustrating, but it's just part of being an aging golfer.
  14. Fourputt

    Dropping For Relief from GUR on a Cart Path

    To follow the procedure you would first need to drop on the cart path. If there is interference from the obstruction where the ball came to rest, you would then follow the procedure for taking relief from that.
  15. It's the skill of reading a green, regardless of whether they both work it out together. The books are created using tools which are not allowed under the rules. They also then record information which is not considered as public knowledge"under the rules", such as the amount of slope as measured with a protractor and level, etc. While this still requires the player to strike the putt, it still takes something away from the necessity of reading the green as he plays the hole. That distinction may be too subtle for Kuchar's caddie to grasp, but I can see it. When I see player after player facing 40+ foot snaky putts and regularly getting them within a couple of inches, it raises the suspicion that they have more information to go on than just what they are reading at the time. It's not the short putts that probably concern the ruling bodies, but more likely those long lag putts which they feel have become too easy. I don't have any info, but I wonder if the stats on 3-putts have changed over the last 10-15 years enough to cause this concern.

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