• Announcements

    • iacas

      Create a Signature!   02/05/2016

      Everyone, go here and edit your signature this week: http://thesandtrap.com/settings/signature/.
WillM

My Swing (WillM)

75 posts in this topic

I've been Playing Golf for: Since I could stand on my own two legs

My current handicap index or average score is: 80-85

My typical ball flight is: Cut that gets more pronounced as the clubs get longer, flight itself is pretty good, piercing, good launch angle, etc.

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: The Cut/Fade/Slice.


I have been playing golf my whole life and have just gotten serious about it. I also have had this slice for my whole life and I have improved it steadily over the years but now I have hit a wall which is extremely frustrating. Hank Haney said the only way to become a better golfer from a slice is to work to a hook and then from there to a good golf shot... I would like to eventually be able to shape shots but if it could just go straight, I would be perfectly happy. Any glaring things in the swing I am missing? Any tips or drill? Thanks!

I am gripping EXTREMELY down because of a low ceiling. I do not normally grip that low. I grip the golf club like a normal person. As far as neutral/strong/weak though, that is how I normally grip, if it makes a difference.

Videos:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Want to get rid of this advertisement? Sign up (or log in) today! It's free!

it's set to private

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by logman

it's set to private

seems to happen on about every other member swing post... lol

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow I am such an idiot lol, I didn't think of that when I posted the videos. Anyway, they should be fixed now :) Thanks for letting me know!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty tough to see what's going on unless you're hitting real balls. My own practice swings (sadly) look a lot different than my actual swings. I think you'll get a lot more feedback if you post a swing from the driving range.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty tough to see what's going on unless you're hitting real balls. My own practice swings (sadly) look a lot different than my actual swings. I think you'll get a lot more feedback if you post a swing from the driving range.

Agreed... everyone has good looking practice swings :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sliding your hips instead of turning hence your shoulders dropping and popping out on the other side to compensate your power!

And because of your sliding you cant close the club face as fast as your hips hence your wrist flipping upon impact which WILL cause a bad hook when you figure out the proper shoulder/hip turn.

Power should come from your leg/hips lastly.  TURN.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by bomberman

Sliding your hips instead of turning hence your shoulders dropping and popping out on the other side to compensate your power!

And because of your sliding you cant close the club face as fast as your hips hence your wrist flipping upon impact which WILL cause a bad hook when you figure out the proper shoulder/hip turn.

Power should come from your leg/hips lastly.  TURN.

I disagree.

And it's a practice swing - let's see a golf ball being struck.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Originally Posted by bomberman

Sliding your hips instead of turning hence your shoulders dropping and popping out on the other side to compensate your power!

And because of your sliding you cant close the club face as fast as your hips hence your wrist flipping upon impact which WILL cause a bad hook when you figure out the proper shoulder/hip turn.

Power should come from your leg/hips lastly.  TURN.

I also disagree. Opening the hips keeps the clubface open if anything, because the arms aren't in the right position at impact. Turning too much doesn't get the arm in front enough of the chest, giving the hands time to close the face into impact.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been Playing Golf for: my whole life My current handicap index or average score is: 4.8 My typical ball flight is: High cut The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: The pull fade with a light seasoning of slices. My divots point left of the target but there is no go to flaw that suggests why so I am posting here. My swing plane is neutral if not slightly under plane but I can't for the life of me figure out why I still fade the ball with a pull. Help? [rule] Videos: FO Swing: [VIDEO]http://youtu.be/hj7YHlLNHp0[/VIDEO] http://youtu.be/hj7YHlLNHp0 DL Swing: [VIDEO]http://youtu.be/rXm6580HEY0[/VIDEO] http://youtu.be/rXm6580HEY0
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@WillM ,

I edited your post by embedding the video.  This is done by pushing the film button in the middle second row and adding the Youtube URL.  This makes it easier for forum members to view your video.

Thanks for posting the videos.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Will, two things, a comment and a question:

  • It's not unusual for divots to point left even on draws. If they're severely left, then it's a good indicator, but otherwise divots make bad indicators. Here's a thread on that: .
  • You're certain that your contact is good? No heel jobs? Gonna assume it's good, but please tell us if it's a little in the heel and that you've confirmed it.

I'll try to get back to you later today. In the meantime peruse and post on the rest of the site. :)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

@boogielicious thanks for embedding them. I was trying to do it quickly from my phone. @iacas My contact is usually pretty good. I will never miss heel side, mostly off the toe. Most of the time my divots will be 5-10 yards left of the target but every once in awhile I will get one that is 25-30 yards left... That is pretty severe. But again, at least to me, there is nothing to indicate that I am pulling across the ball that hard.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a great example of a good player's swing and how even video can fool some people (particularly when a) it's not shot from the best angles, or at least the angles that best illustrate this kind of thing, and b) it's not slow motion at all).

Basically, in golf geek terms, you're rolling the third accumulator from 6 to 7 really hard, and that shifts not only the face left but the path left quite a bit as well. It can look like your clubhead's on an OUTward path at 6, but still be going INward at 7 due to #3.

In non-golf-geek terms… You're rotating your left forearm and wrist too much through impact. This rotation sends the path of the club to the left, even though it can look like it's slightly right-ward.

The funny thing is… the more the ball cuts, the more the tendency is for you to try to roll the face more. This is where the ball flight laws can help you, though again "path is instinctual." To make a ball curve right, you swing left more. To make a ball curve left, or lessen the right curve it already has, you swing RIGHT more.

Eventually you may want to tackle some other things in your swing (your "URC" or "upper rotational center" moves back in the backswing a bit, for example). Don't worry about this stuff now though.

Here's the plan for now:

  1. Get the left hand grip a little more in the fingers and probably a touch stronger. This will help you to eliminate the feeling that you "need" to roll the face a little to "close it" (a feel) so you can stop hitting cuts. So, again, a little more in the fingers, and a tad stronger, in the left hand. A good thread on this is here: .
  2. You're going to want to hit some balls feeling like, from the position on the downswing when the shaft is horizontal to the ground (what we call "A6" or "6" here on the site, and elsewhere), through to A8 (shaft horizontal on the follow-through) you do two things: 1) RAISE THE HANDLE quite high, and 2) FEEL NO ROLL of the left forearm.

In talking about this video with Dave (he confirmed my suspicions on the core issue here), he reminded me of a drill for which we plan to shoot a video soon:

Quote:
Imagine a wall just in front of the ball (on the target side) and perpendicular to the target line. On the downswing, take the hands to the wall and then continue to push the hands UP that wall after impact. Do not take your hands left along that wall, but up the wall.

Here are some images:

Just enough of a roll here to send the path a little left. Otherwise in VERY good shape here.

Grip is a bit weak, probably a tad palmy, but otherwise good impact position. The second frame illustrates how quickly the hands are rolling over through impact though.

Again shows how quickly the club kicks "around the corner" on the downswing.

So the feel is taking the handle UP more, as indicated here:

While also not rolling the forearm over (your wrists rolling across each other):

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Wow that analysis is more than I could've expected. Thanks so much. I will definitely go out and work on this. Would this forearm over rotation show up in a over rotated Clubhead in the follow thru? As in when the club is coming out of the shoulder the toe wouldn't be pointing straight up but more towards 10-11 o'clock? As for my head moving around, I have been aware of that for a long time. It was a by product of me starting to actually rotate my hips in my backswing. Never really got around to fixing it. My biggest question, this might sound uninformed, wouldn't raising the handle at/through impact cause me to catch the ground with the toe first and start hitting more of a fade? Or is it just the THOUGHT of raising the handle?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would this forearm over rotation show up in a over rotated Clubhead in the follow thru? As in when the club is coming out of the shoulder the toe wouldn't be pointing straight up but more towards 10-11 o'clock?

Not necessarily, no. It would tend to, but it doesn't have to.

As for my head moving around, I have been aware of that for a long time. It was a by product of me starting to actually rotate my hips in my backswing. Never really got around to fixing it.

Not really the priority right now though.

My biggest question, this might sound uninformed, wouldn't raising the handle at/through impact cause me to catch the ground with the toe first and start hitting more of a fade? Or is it just the THOUGHT of raising the handle?

Not up so much in that direction (i.e. uncocking the wrists), though there may be some more of that, but it will be minor. It's more raising the handle up the wall, which keeps the handle out to the right a little, and thus keeps the sweetspot (Key #4) traveling outward longer while slowing the rate of closure (RoC) just a tad.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

I've been Playing Golf for: 15 years (competitively for 2.5)

My current handicap index or average score is: 0.5

My typical ball flight is: Draw

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: the block and misses off the toe


I am always trying to gather more information about the golf swing so whatever you can share helps!

Videos:

Here is my swing down the line.

Some thoughts/questions/comments:

I have worked to get more upright in my setup and am pretty pleased with where it is now. My takeaway is normally pretty clean, but for some reason this one is a bit under plane. It is the most recent one I could find. Once I get to the top of my backswing I hate almost everything after that......... Currently my teacher wants me working to get my left arm closer to my body at impact to stop my hands from releasing independently of the body.

The two things I want to fix most are my transition at the top of my backswing and the way my lower body works in the swing. I used to be a baseball player so it is a bit out of wack... Notice how severely my left foot rolls before I even get to impact? I don't know what to do about that but it frustrates me beyond belief. I fall to my heels and my head moves all over the place and there are some days where I am frankly surprised I can hit a golf ball. Good hand-eye coordination I guess. Anyway, that is my main complaint. Transition is a little ugly but I can live with it.

Seriously though, compare the way my left foot moves to basically every other pro out there (except maybe kinda Spieth) and it definitely does not look the same... On some swings I can't hold my balance I roll so far. It can't be good for my foot either.

Also. This video has a swing which is more laid off at the top. I can go between across the line and laid off, as well as neutral, pretty easily. I have a good sense of where the club head is so I can basically make it look however I want. My question is, what works best? My teacher wants me across the line just a tiny bit but I feel like I can't hit a cut/fade out of that position if I need to so I have kept it more laid off. Thoughts? This is maybe a more personal style thing? Tiger was successful with both... then again he was Tiger Woods.

I mentioned misses off the toe. Those usually happen with the longer clubs, about 5 iron and higher. It is quite frustrating to have 200 yards in and leave it 30 yards short because I can't hit the ball pure... My guess is this will fix itself if some one can help me figure out a good drill for my lower body, just thought I would mention it is only with longer clubs.

Last thing, my club comes out a bit low in the follow through at times but again, I think that will improve a lot if I get my lower body working the right way.

Here is my face on swing:

Not too many things to say here, this video is about a month and a half old. I don't get the chance to film FO very much. Maybe a little under rotated with the upper body. I create a good amount of lag... Not much else I can think of. I've made a few posture adjustments since when this was taken but that is it.

Who ever responds, thank you for taking the time to analyze this and provide feedback.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a little under rotated with the upper body. I create a good amount of lag... Not much else I can think of. I've made a few posture adjustments since when this was taken but that is it.

I would agree with that. I'd focus on getting that left shoulder to work down and across more.

With your posture I would recommend lowering your eyes so you can see the ball out of your central vision.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards and Achievements

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2016 TST Partners

    GAME Golf
    PING Golf
    Golf Evolution
  • Posts

    • GAME GOLF - Digital Tracking System
      Well, I went ahead and bit. Amazon Warehouse Deals has a few for $86 each. I had a $25 Amazon GC from Christmas, so after tax, it's going to be $66. It says the packaging is damaged, but no mention of problems with the device. Here's hoping it comes in good shape, and that it warms up pretty quickly so I can use it!
    • "5 Minutes Daily" Practice Challenge (February 2016)
      The tournament I was supposed to play in was cancelled , so I played in a shotgun start today. The group I was in played at a quicker pace than the group in front and the group behind us, so I had plenty of opportunities for practicing greenside chipping and bunker shots as well as putting.
    • Jack or Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?
      While I expect it's largely accurate, I was more interested in a link to the actual quote than your paraphrase. The context of the question and interview plus the exact wording gives a clearer understanding of the statement. I accept deeper field of talent, I don't accept that it's automatically 'a ton' or an order of magnitude greater. What's the average score relative to the field (or % making the cut) in the PGA for the Pros vs. the PGA qualifiers from then to now? That could provide some insight to relative gap between majors field depth then and now. I am certain it's gotten harder for the PGA qualifiers to make it tot he weekend. I am less certain by how much the margin has shifted. The reason I stress the Majors and Opens is that size of field and openness to qualifiers is very important in making the top competitors face many elite players with potential to have a hot run of form. You're comparing apples to oranges there. That was ~ 1.5 million players in the U.S., not the world population of golfers. About 26 million golfers today in the U.S. Worldwide in 1920 who knows? But including Europe, Australia, and other 'commonwealth' countries it was likely double that - maybe triple. Also I can find no credible estimate that supports 100 million current golfers worldwide. Most generous is about 61 million. While there are a lot of clubs world-wide, participation of 'casual' unaffiliated golfers per club is not going to be the same as in the U.S. and that's the only way I get a number close to 100 million based on actual data. U.S. golf population talent base roughly tripled between Jack and Tiger and I expect worldwide it was a similar rate of increase. I think since the 1920's the U.S. has had about half the wold golf population, though that's started to decline of late as Asian participation increases. Jack was head and shoulders above highly competitive fields for nearly a generation similar to Tiger. I don't think human abilities change by orders of magnitude in short spans of time so I expect that Jack was an outlier of similar human ability as Tiger. How close and who has the edge is IMO debatable. Were Tiger's achievements (esp. the 'beat the field' streak) tougher than Jack's because of field depth, yes. How much more I'm not as sure as you. Did a relative 'competitive break' from full field events offered by the WGC's help Tiger there? Don't know but it's possible. Combine Tiger's regular wins and Majors and I have no problem giving him the greatest player of all time nod. I just don't think it's as cut and dried or by as large a margin as you seem to. They didn't play against each other so your confidence isn't any more a fact than my uncertainty. We're both estimating. Size of the field actually competing matters too, not just who wasn't invited to the party. I like the idea of a top player field and enjoy watching the events, but if only the top 50 players are playing they all have a better shot statistically than if the field was open to 156 or more players who are still very 'elite' in skill. As you've said in many posts, golf skill performance is highly variable. I agree and that's why I think size of field is relevant to the comparison, because I think the scoring variability of the top 90 golfers in the world overlaps considerably with the next 90 down and even a bit beyond that. That's why I wondered whether WGC wins are a bit less valuable than a major or a full field PGA tour event that's also open to Monday qualifying. Granted the world ranking system is better than it used to be, but it still weights international events more strongly than they deserve. Some of the reasons I think you may be undervaluing Nicklaus' achievement in comparing across eras.
    • "5 Minutes Daily" Practice Challenge (January 2016)
      I managed to complete the January challenge (without missing a day, I believe). It was a great months' work for my game - having to blog every day sure helps to focus each session.
    • Steel vs Graphite generic question
      S300 is one of the lowest launching steel shafts.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Images

  • Today's Birthdays

    No users celebrating today
  • Blog Entries