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club face controll? better swing, heel or toe, right elbow, errrrr, this may be long winded so grab a drink.

2 posts in this topic

hello all - here is my run down: I have been golfing 6 years. I'm 45 I play right handed tho I am left handed. I throw left handed, I hunt righty, I played base ball righty, my index right now is 20 I have been down to 16. my woods and driver are my strong spots irons are decent I have what I think is a flatter swing, left arm stays below my right shoulder on back swing, it's kind of a 2 piece swing because I do get the club behind me going back but I get it on plane coming into the ball. I have a pro that I work with and he is very good. now the story, this is with irons. August last year I got down to a 16. I try to play without thinking about what my swings doing, one day I had a easy for me chip shot I made the shot the ball took of right, after that I got on a par 3 7 iron in hand, make my swing and boom same thing, this wasn't a slice it was a shank, looked at my club face on both my wedge a 7 and the ball marks were on the hosel. well I finished 2013 in November @ a 24. I didn't even go to the range until March 2014 I started the season with a lot of shanks, that's when I went to see my instructor. at this point I wasn't getting forward on my through swing ( getting forward has allways been a problem for me). after getting forward the shanks stopped. well a couple of normal rounds and a good amount of practice with all my contact being center to toe I ran into the shanks again but this was a weird case like no distance and right. back to the pro. everything in my swing looked good except I was coming into the ball with the face so wide open that my subconscious made the very heel of the club hit the ball. bad thing is I could do this over and over. we worked on grip, mine is weak, even with a stronger grip I was doing the same, we ended the lesson with keeping my head behind the ball more then I usually did and that worked. I have been back to lessons and my biggest complaint I have about my swing I tell my instructor that on the down swing something in my brain dosnt like what's happening when my hands get about waste high. and we do the video taping and other adjustments. some reason I keep reverting to holding my club face open, some times I can put what I know is a great move through the ball and it could be a open face shot towards the toe, I could make a less lower body swing and let my arms fly and hit towards the heel still with a open face. I played this weekend at a longer course then I normally play, warming up and the first six holes I did not like what I was feeling when my hands got waist high on the down swing, I never lost a shot right, but it did loose a couple pulled left, I almost felt like in my set up I was stalling just to get my hands set almost like my hands and brain didn't agree, I was struggling to find my swing, some how and I don't know how I started playing better and got off the course with a 92. pretty darn good for me on that course. here is a picture @ contact. this was taken around sept 2013 I used my phone to video myself when I started to feel this waist high problem. pic left good ball flight, not my best, pic on the right you can see. only thing I can see is that my right elbow is stuck behind me (yes this has been discussed in lessons.) so for free advise what would be your thoughts on what you see in the pics? [IMG]http://www.poolnaround.com/golf/chestswing.jpg[/IMG] thanks Tom

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Tom ( @motsco ),

It would help if you posted a video of your swing in the Members Swings section.  Instructors and lower handicap players may be able to help.  Meanwhile, check out the videos in this thread.

The post on clubface control, below, shows a great drill to do.  As with most drills, you should do them at slower speeds to get used to the change you are attempting to make in your swing.


Also, it could be simply a grip issue.


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    • My Swing (jbishop15)
      I see a lot of G-Mac in that swing! G-Mac has the same grip and also a shut face, maybe not as shut as you and DJ. If you would allow me to give my input. From what I can see you are the Tiger Woods of the backswing, no matter what you do or try to do you end up in a great position. I saw your first post and you were very inside going back, now you seem to be too outside. I'll leave the backswing to the others, my advice is to find somwhere between now and then. Since you're great at the top, try to find the most efficient path to the top, have your shoulders move from setup to top of backswing position in one smooth motion, without standing up on the way back. If you find the most efficient path with the arms you will find it somewhere in the middle, not too much in, not too much out, remember the swing is an arch, not straight lines, it's okay to get a little curvy with it. That's the best way I can explain in laymans terms. The reason you want to be efficient is to lessen the time of the swing. Most pros get the ball in the air in the time you take to get to the top. This is very common. The less time you take, the more repeatable it will be. Try to lay three balls next to each other, and rapid fire them. Do this a few times. Then hit one ball pretending you have to rapid fire three, but stop after one. This is a great drill. All this should help your backswing in no time!   Now I'm going to write what I think is a basic issue in your swing, which again has a lot of great positions in it. I strongly advise you work on the backswing first until you are so ewhat used to it (2 weeks) and then go onto this next part. You can have this next part in the back of your mind, allowing your body to toy with it without thought as you work on the backswing. Do yourself a big favor and DO NOT work on both at the same time. Remember the body learns better if it understands in the mind first, and then works on its own a bit, instead of trying to force feed new motions. From my experience the backswing part and this next part will take you a few months each to feel comfortable, but you will see the impacts very quickly. I think you will find solid contact if you choose to follow my advice.  Here is the next part: Your arms are swinging somewhat opposite of the direction of your body. This is a weight transfer issue. Golf instructors and books will have different opinions on how much weight you shoud have on your back foot on the backswing, some say 60% others say as much as 80%, some say 100%. I agree with the notion that you should have as much weight back as you can, without involving extra effort to go forward, like a rocking chair, it should be a load and release, not a pull and a push. In your swing your body is rocking back, but then it is leaning towards the target slightly, not much. The problem is your arms are swinging away from your body, completely on their own, there is little connection to the movement of the body. Then on the forward swing, your body begins falling back, and the arms begin swinging forward. Since you have the club face very shut, the body must also fall back to allow the club face time to square up, barring an insane hip turn. The result is at impact you are angled too much upward, the hands are pointing up and to the right, causing a high push, and more importantly adding loft to the club. This results in difficulty controlling distance, and shots that are weaker and higher than they can potentially be, given your natural power. So the fix here is to get the body and arms working more together. The first step is get that club face just a little less closed, maybe 5-10 degrees less, so that you don't have to strain yourself while not falling back. To do this just strenghten your left hand grip slighty, and try not to bow the left wrist as severely at the top. This is easier said than done, but once your clubface is more square/closed than closed/closed, it will allow some room for the body motion adjustment. The final step is getting the body to move forward with the arms, so you aren't falling back. You should notice a straighter left leg happening with this. There will be a lot less upper body tilt, and you will stay on top of your hips more. The hands forward part will have to wait until the body isn't falling back so severely, because part of the hands going forward is the body going left. You won't have a hard time with this because you already lag the club well. The best way you can get the body going in sequence going back and forward is to imagine throwing the club back as far as you can, and throwing the club forward as far as you can. If you have a lot of property and old clubs you can actually do this. The throwing the club forward part is practiced into nets by students frequently. The throwing back is important too. An impact bag will help as well. Remember if you wanted to throw a club far you would naturally put your weight into it, not against it, which is why the drill is so helpful. The only difference between throwing a club and the golf swing is two things. One you have to hold onto the club, for many reasons. Two* to get consistent contact you can't move laterally much off the ball. You want to feel as if you and the club are being pulled as hard as you can, without moving more than two or three inches off the ball, that is the real challenge. It's not easy to focus so much force while staying still, which is why the opposite weight transfer is a go to move for many golfers. Whatever it is, you must still use the same concepts as if you are throwing a club back and throwing a club upward, that is the best way for your mind and body will both understand where the ball is supposed to go. The last thing I will add is that when you imagine throwing the club, it does not have to be a straight line. The backswing throw should be up and behind you a bit, and the forward throw of course would be up and to your left a bit, since the swing is on an arch.  Hope you take this with you. :D
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