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Swing Plane with Driver Different?

post #1 of 16
4/7/08 at 2:47pm
Thread Starter 
I know there are alot of threads about swing planes, inside-out, steep or flat etc. What I have been very confused about ever since I started playing golf is that my swing just doesn't translate when I use my driver.

I hit my irons great, good compression, high ball flight, with a slight fade. I have a fairly steep swing. When I go to hit my driver if I use the same swing plane I slice it. It is not a crazy slice but a slice.

My questions: Is the swing plane with the driver supposed to be alot flatter?
What would be a good tip on how to start the swing with a driver. Is it supposed to feel like I am swinging a baseball bat?

I am trying to match my swing plane up with the angle of the shaft on my
driver but I just cant seem to get the right feel.
It feels like I am missing something..Any suggestions are welcome.
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post #2 of 16
4/7/08 at 3:02pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

I think the driver is flatter simply because of the length of the shaft..I feel that you should release the club a little earlier with the longer clubs...best of luck
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post #3 of 16
4/7/08 at 3:28pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by r7 425 View Post
I think the driver is flatter simply because of the length of the shaft..I feel that you should release the club a little earlier with the longer clubs...best of luck
Wow, the first thing you've said that I can agree with.

The plane is flatter, indeed, because the shaft is longer.

The modern 460cc driver is also, for some, a bit tougher to close. Check your grip and make sure your closing the clubface in time.

The only other option would be that you are playing a pull-cut with your irons, which can often translate into a plain old slide with the driver because of the differences in how you hit them (irons: off the ground, hit down and through, etc.).
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post #4 of 16
4/7/08 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
Check your grip and make sure your closing the clubface in time.
What is the best way for me to check my grip. I use a neutral grip right now.
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post #5 of 16
4/7/08 at 5:18pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

This is how I try to explain this to my students. Get in front of a mirror and address the ground. You will see that the shaft will lie at a particular angle for any given club. This is what I refer to as the shaft plane. (Others definition may vary and I don't wish to be corrected.) Imagine that the shaft were to continue through your torso behind you.

If you were to only rotate your torso and NOT lift your arms or change your original spine angle the shaft will remain along this plane throughout the entire backswing.

Your swing may be more conventional but the original "shaft plane" thing should give you a good idea of how whatever swing plane you wish to refer to alters by club.

Tom
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post #6 of 16
4/7/08 at 5:26pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by irspow View Post
This is how I try to explain this to my students. Get in front of a mirror and address the ground. You will see that the shaft will lie at a particular angle for any given club. This is what I refer to as the shaft plane. (Others definition may vary and I don't wish to be corrected.) Imagine that the shaft were to continue through your torso behind you.

If you were to only rotate your torso and NOT lift your arms or change your original spine angle the shaft will remain along this plane throughout the entire backswing.

Your swing may be more conventional but the original "shaft plane" thing should give you a good idea of how whatever swing plane you wish to refer to alters by club.

Tom
Right that makes sense and I think I understand that. I just cant seem to get the feeling of keeping that "shaft angle" with my driver. I like your bit about rotating your torso and not lifting your arms. Is that the whole idea?
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post #7 of 16
4/7/08 at 5:36pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by irspow View Post
(Others definition may vary and I don't wish to be corrected.)
That comes off as having quite a bit of attitude. The "corrections" offered previously regarding your "one-plane" and "two-plane" thing were warranted, in my opinion, so please choose your words carefully. If, as an instructor, you've not learned that lesson yet I hope you do soon.

Originally Posted by irspow View Post
If you were to only rotate your torso and NOT lift your arms or change your original spine angle the shaft will remain along this plane throughout the entire backswing.
While true, I'm not certain I see the point. The golf swing does involve "lifting" the arms. It's not a purely rotational movement.

If all you're saying is that the shaft plane is flatter, so the swing plane changes - that's already been said in this thread, hasn't it?
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post #8 of 16
4/7/08 at 5:43pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Yep, pretty much. I try to teach the most relaxed and efficient swing possible. No arm or hand action whatsoever. If you concentrate on only rotating your torso and do absolutely nothing with your arms or hands you will find that you will stay on what I defined as the shaft plane throughout the backswing.

Then all you have to do to swing forward is to get your belly button to face the target before impact. If you can keep your hands and arms passive your plane will flatten a little more coming forward while your body stays well ahead of the clubhead creating great lag.

I often use the belly button analogy as it tends to make people forget about their arms as well as whether their weight shift, hip turn, or shoulder turn dominate the downswing.
In simplest terms turn your belly directly away from the target in the backswing, then point your belly directly at the target before you make contact with the ball. It will feel strange but get you great lag with very little effort.

You will find that rotating your torso (actually rather at a leisurely pace) in the correct sequence will produce prodigious distance and accuracey. Remember the more you have to do during the swing the more you will mess up. Keep it simple and let science do the work for you.

Tom
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post #9 of 16
4/7/08 at 5:49pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

My thousands of hours video taping students does indeed tell me that while their shouldn't be any lifting of the arms during the swing, most people actually do lift the club off plane. I did not state that the swing was purely rotational. When I offer advice it is given in a way that I believe people should think, not necessarily what they should do. What people feel versus what they do are usually totally different things.

As for my clarification of MY definition of shaft plane. I think it was warrented given the reproaches offered here. I did not want any confusion with what I was saying and what may have been pulished somewhere else by anyone who managed to get a book deal. In no way was it directed towards any member of this forum. So I am sorry if that is what you inferred.

I humbly disagree with you sir, you may lift your arms if you wish, that is your choice. I however find absolutely no benefit whatsoever in doing so. Experience has taught me that it simply necessitates a more aggressive transition move to return to the flatter plane necessary during the downswing as well as additional timing issues and stress in the arms and hands. Just my opinion and experience. We will have to agree to disagree.

Tom
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post #10 of 16
4/8/08 at 2:30am

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Golf requires two swings, irons and woods.
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post #11 of 16
4/8/08 at 3:10am

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by Doctorfro View Post
Golf requires two swings, irons and woods.
I disagree with that. I think that you have the same swing, however a different set up with each club. The different setup is what makes you hit the ball either on the upswing with the driver or downswing with the irons. Your striking the ball at different times during the swing, but the swing itself is the same. At least it is for me.
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post #12 of 16
4/8/08 at 4:22am

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

To keep it simple, there are some visual images in golf magazine of the varied swing planes according to each club.

I guess I'm more of a visual learner, but these swing-plane images helped me. Of course, reproducing these swing planes, particularly with the driver, is another matter. (smile)

- k
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post #13 of 16
4/10/08 at 11:50am

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

My best driver shots have been when I smoothly pivot with arms carried along by momentum instead of manipulation. The trick is in maintaining a relatively motionless spine.

If it's good enough for 'Iron Byron', who am I to improve on it ?
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post #14 of 16
4/10/08 at 2:43pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by Doctorfro View Post
Golf requires two swings, irons and woods.
I disagree with the belief that two swings are required (one for irons and one of woods), and I disagree that there is a significant difference between the swing plane of an iron and the swing plane of a wood. While its true that clubs have different lie angles at address that doesn't mean they have to be swung differently. In relation to the body, ball, and ground the club still swings into the same positions. You'll often hear tour pros say they want to keep the swing simple. If you're trying to swing differently with each club you'll making things complicated, not simple.

Look at the image I have linked below:
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6...nplanesbp4.jpg
With both the iron and wood we see:
The shaft points at the belt buckle at address.
The hands and club head are both on the same level and on the orginal shaft angle plane.
The shaft points just inside the ball at the left arm parallel backswing position.
The shoulders are perpendicular to the spine at the top of the swing, and the left arm is parallel to the to the line that the shaft was on at left arm parallel back.
The shaft at hip high on the downswing is parallel to the original shaft angle plane and points just above the ball with both clubs.
At shoulder high in the through swing the shaft again points in the same place it did on the left arm parallel back location.

Now after seeing all that who still thinks the irons and driver require a different swing?
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post #15 of 16
4/10/08 at 8:03pm

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

sheeeet..Three quarters of the way back you could rest your beer on the clubface of my driver..thats how flat I swing dat thang..
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post #16 of 16
4/11/08 at 3:46am

Re: Swing Plane with Driver Different?

Originally Posted by irspow View Post
My thousands of hours video taping students does indeed tell me that while their shouldn't be any lifting of the arms during the swing, most people actually do lift the club off plane. I did not state that the swing was purely rotational. When I offer advice it is given in a way that I believe people should think, not necessarily what they should do. What people feel versus what they do are usually totally different things.

As for my clarification of MY definition of shaft plane. I think it was warrented given the reproaches offered here. I did not want any confusion with what I was saying and what may have been pulished somewhere else by anyone who managed to get a book deal. In no way was it directed towards any member of this forum. So I am sorry if that is what you inferred.

I humbly disagree with you sir, you may lift your arms if you wish, that is your choice. I however find absolutely no benefit whatsoever in doing so. Experience has taught me that it simply necessitates a more aggressive transition move to return to the flatter plane necessary during the downswing as well as additional timing issues and stress in the arms and hands. Just my opinion and experience. We will have to agree to disagree.

Tom
Tom - would you say you teach a one plane swing then? The idea of swinging left, right? Look up a guy named SliceFixer on youtube and GolfWrx. My problem with swinging this way, other than I can't find an instructor here in Kansas, is that the arms can get out of synch easier than the two plane swing - my main problem.
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