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a trend i've been seeing


doublesuited77
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over the past few months.

more and more course with bunkers (mostly fairway) intentionally without any rakes in them. I know Pine Valley has historically done this as well.

Personally, i love this-- it makes bunkers more of a penalty. i would like to see this in all courses.

What's in the bag:

Driver: Adams 9064LS (project RIP Shaft) 9.5 degree
3 Wood: Titleist 909R 14.5 degree
Hybrid 3-iron: 19 degree Tour Professional (bent to 18 degrees)Hybrid 4-iron: 21 degree Tour ProfessionalIrons: Tour X-20 5-PW Project X 6.0 shaftsGap Wedge: Mizuno MP10 52.08 Sand Wedge: Mizuno MP10 58.10 Lob Wedge: Nike 62.06

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no rakes at all so the previous player that hit in the bunker left his footprint?

I don't find that fair ..

Sean

What's in the bag:
Driver: TaylorMade R11S 9 degree.  Set to upright 8 degree.  Aldila RIP Alpha 60s X flex shaft.

3 wood: TaylorMade 13 degree RocketBallz (coming shortly).. X Flex Matrix X Conn.

Hybrids: 2iron / 4iron Taylor Burner Rescue.

Irons: 5 - PW 2008 Model Year Titleist AP2

Wedges: 49*, 54* 60* Cleveland 588 Rusties.

Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi Long.

Balls: Titleist Pro VX

Bag: Titleist Black / Red Staff

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no rakes at all so the previous player that hit in the bunker left his footprint?

Exactly, stay out of the bunker.

905R
LD-F 3-Wood
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Cobra C Wedge 56-11 Vokey Oil-Can 260-08 degree Scotty Cameron Newport 2 35'' Pro V1x

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no rakes at all so the previous player that hit in the bunker left his footprint?

Golf was never meant to be fair. As long as all players are treated equally, that's all the fairness required. That means that you might get a good break, you might get a bad break... over time it all evens out.

To the OP, I haven't seen this trend on the courses I play, but it wouldn't bother me if I did.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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I'd welcome this! I spend lots and lots of time in the bunkers (some days I'll even bring a beach chair).

I've always found raking to be a chore, but I do it out of courtesy. If there are no rakes, I'll be off to the next hole faster. Assuming of course my ball isn't resting in somebody's enormous footprint.

G10 9* Stiff Shaft Driver
R7 Draw 3 Wood
Burner 3 hybrid
26* Baffler Hybrid 5H Stiff Shaft.
Rapture 6-SW (3-5 are retired in favor of hybrids) Vokey Spin Milled 60* Wedge Newport 2 Pinseeker 1600 + ViewTI GPS software for iPhone

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As long as all players are treated equally

exactly.

one player in front of you puts a foot print in a bunker. now you have to play out of HIS footprint. that isn't playing equally. you can say the same about divots .. but players replace their divots so this doesn't happen, just like they rake the bunkers so this doesn't happen.

Sean

What's in the bag:
Driver: TaylorMade R11S 9 degree.  Set to upright 8 degree.  Aldila RIP Alpha 60s X flex shaft.

3 wood: TaylorMade 13 degree RocketBallz (coming shortly).. X Flex Matrix X Conn.

Hybrids: 2iron / 4iron Taylor Burner Rescue.

Irons: 5 - PW 2008 Model Year Titleist AP2

Wedges: 49*, 54* 60* Cleveland 588 Rusties.

Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi Long.

Balls: Titleist Pro VX

Bag: Titleist Black / Red Staff

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If there are no rakes, I'll be off to the next hole faster.

Why would you want to go through a game of golf as fast as you can? DOn't you want to enjoy it? lol

As for the bunker deal, i think rakes should be placed it, it's unfair to the next person, as the sand will in time will more and more footprints become packed down and foot print placements everywhere. I give it thumbs down.

In my Black'n'Red :

Driver: R7 TP 460cc 10.5* Reax 65 stiff shaft
3 Wood: Tour Impact 15*
Irons: Tour Impact 3-PWWedges: Vokey Oil Can Spin Milled 54.10, Golfco Baron 58* SWPutter: Tracy II 35"Balls: Prov 1Age:16

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A couple of times I've been out I've noticed this. It wouldn't be that hard to use your wedge or what ever club you hit out of the sand to smooth out some of your footprints. Yeah it's not going to look as good as a rake would do but atleast it's better than leaving the footprints.

In my Pro-Walker stand bag:

Driver: Founders Club "The Judge" Graphite shaft (benched for bad play)
3-wood: 15* steel shaft
5 & 7-wood: Velocitized BBT Oversized Graphite Shaft Medium Flex 21* & 25*3-iron: Wilson Sam Snead Blue Ridge (benched for bad play)4-SW: Maker's Pride irons steel shaftsP...

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Wouldn't that make the game more inconsistent? Aren't bunkers challenging enough for the average player?

10.5* Driver (don't really ever use it)
3w, 5w
23* hybrid
5i through PW, SW
60* Wedge.....................................................................mellojoe

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exactly.

Yes it is, because all players have the same chance of landing in that footprint. Just because they don't all land there doesn't make it unfair, any more than it's unfair that they don't all land behind a certain tree, or all hit the same patch of deep rough. One guy hits into a water hazard and gets a perfect lie, while his buddy is 2 feet away and unplayable. What's fair about that? But they had an equal chance of their positions being reversed, or both being playable, or both being unplayable.

By equal it doesn't mean equal result, just equal chance. You can't possibly ask more than that, or you aren't playing golf.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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I wouldnt mind no rakes but at least when you are going to put rakes dont put them all next to each other in one corner, and dont put only two in a 20yd long fairway bunker. I hate having to walk halfway around the world or more than i have to in a bunker in order for me to get to a rake. It slows down play too.

Whats in my Warbird Hot Bad:

Driver: 907D1 9.5 - 65-S Aldila VS Proto --- FT-IQ coming soon?
2 Hybrid: Rescue mid-TP 16 deg
3 Hybrid: Rescue TP - HC Tour Only Model 19 deg - DG X-1004-PW: 695CB Irons - Project X 6.0Wedges Vokey SM58, Vokey SM54, Vokey 250Putter Futura PhantomWhere I WorkMy...

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Yes it is, because all players have the same chance of landing in that footprint.

Except you are assuming that only one footprint will remain in the bunker all day. But that won't happen. Without rakes, the first foursome of the day will get a raked bunker, and the one that comes through at 2 p.m. will have to deal with 100 footprints, 50 splash holes, etc.

If you want harder bunkers, why not advocate bigger/wider tines like Jack mandates at the Memorial? But more to the point, how is a (raked) bunker not a penalty relative to the fairway or the green?
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Yes it is, because all players have the same chance of landing in that footprint. Just because they don't all land there doesn't make it unfair, any more than it's unfair that they don't all land behind a certain tree, or all hit the same patch of deep rough. One guy hits into a water hazard and gets a perfect lie, while his buddy is 2 feet away and unplayable. What's fair about that? But they had an equal chance of their positions being reversed, or both being playable, or both being unplayable.

You're absolutely right. That's why I never fix divots or ball marks. Everybody playing behind me has an equal chance of avoiding the damage I leave so it's all fair.

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Except you are assuming that only one footprint will remain in the bunker all day. But that won't happen. Without rakes, the first foursome of the day will get a raked bunker, and the one that comes through at 2 p.m. will have to deal with 100 footprints, 50 splash holes, etc.

Easy solution: Have a different slope and rating for the course depending on the time of day it is played.

Bill

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You're absolutely right. That's why I never fix divots or ball marks. Everybody playing behind me has an equal chance of avoiding the damage I leave so it's all fair.

I hope your joking. If not read this

http://www.usga.org/playing/etiquette/etiquette.html You should take care of the course.
Driver-Taylor Made R7 460cc 10.5* Fujikara REAX Stiff
Fairway Wood-Taylor Made R7 Draw 15* Fujikara REAX Stiff
Hybrid Taylor Made 19* Rescue Mid Steel Stiff
4-PW-Golfsmith G40 TT Lite XL Stiff
GW-Ben Hogan Riviera 8* Bounce 50*SW-Ben Hogan Riviera Medium Bounce 56*LW-Cleveland 60* 588 ChromePutter-Taylo...
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I have never played Pine Valley, but I don't believe the bunkers with out rakes are the same as the bunkers most of you are talking about. I played a course, The Dunes Club, where some sand had rakes and some did not. If the sand did not have a rake, than it was NOT considered a hazard and you were allowed to ground your club. If the trap had a rake, than it was considered a hazard and you could not ground your club. (Most greenside bunkers had rakes and thus were considered hazards)

These traps, though, that were not considered hazards, were not your typically fairway bunkers that you see on most courses. They are very large and were really part of the fairway. On a par three, there really wasn't any grass between you and the green. Only sand and some overgrown fescue that you would walk through to get to the green. On par 4's and 5's, these traps would cover the entire width of the hole, from one side to the other, and would be as long as 70 yards. (You never had to play out of these bunkers if you played the hole correctly, but they were there to try and make you play the hole a certain way)

Here is a picture I found of a par three at the Dunes club. This picture is taken from the back of the green, facing the tee box's. (The Dunes Club only has 9 greens but has two sets of tee boxes to hit from, one for the front 9 and one for the back. So this picture shows one tee box on the left and one on the right) As you can see, there is sand, and there would not be a rake in this sand, but would you really call it a sand trap? I wouldn't. It's really the fairway between the tee and the green.

While I haven't played Pine Valley, I have seen pictures of it and I believe it is the same set up as The Dunes Club.

For your typically fairway bunker, there will always be a rake, as it should be.

Drive for show, putt for dough


PutterKarsten Anser2
WedgesX-Forged 52* 58*IronsX-20 tours P-3HybridX 21 stiff4-wood R9 17 mitsubishi rayon fubuki StiffDriver R9 11.5 mitsubishi rayon fubuki Stiff
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Note: This thread is 5768 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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