Will someone get seriously hurt?

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

When Cink's shot hit that guy in the head this weekend it sounded like the ball hit a cinder block. The incident brings to mind something I've been concerned about for a long time. How long will it be before someone is blinded or killed by an errant shot?

Just a few years back players and caddies were pretty good about calling out when a shot heads toward the gallery. Today however it is seldom done. They hit an approach shot and the caddies runs for the divot, the player takes practice swings and the hundreds of people around the green are on their own as the ball comes at them at 100 MPH.

On the Eropean Tour the players are much better about sounding off when they fire one into the gallery.

Not only could someone get seriously hurt, but it could crush a career if a player kills someone. A few boxers have never recovered emotionally after an opponent dies in the ring. I'm sure a golfer would be haunted by it as well.

On the tees at least there is a marshall waving a flag or something. Should the players be more concerned, especially when approaching greens?

SubPar

**RichF** · June 8, 2009

When Cink's shot hit that guy in the head this weekend it sounded like the ball hit a cinder block. The incident brings to mind something I've been concerned about for a long time. How long will it be before someone is blinded or killed by an errant shot?

Agreed.

I remember at last year's The Tour Championship, both Kim and Garcia bombed stray drives that went 300+ and in each case, neither player shouted 'Fore !'. One guy got twatted in the forehead by Kim's drive - blood everywhere, guy ot stretcheredd off. The argument was - how can anyone hear them from 300 yards away? That's a poor argument: stewards along the fairway can alert whoever to incoming golf balls.... At least Tiger has the common-sense to shout 'Fore!' and point in the general direction everytime one of his drives goes astray.

**goblue107501** · June 8, 2009

I am sure it will happen at some point. That is just the risk you take going to an event. I don't think that the problem is players not warning people. The bigger problem is not paying attention. If you are sitting next to a fairway or behind a green, you better be able to see the ball to know if it is coming at you. How many times do you see people walking in the rough and a drive bounce right next to them, completely oblivious that the ball is coming. You can warn people on every shot, but if they aren't paying attention, there is not much else you can do for them. I would think the bigger issue would be a player snap hooking a drive into the group of people 100 yards off the tee.

It is kind of like sitting behind the dugout at a baseball game. Great seats, but you better pay attention for the rocket foul ball to come your way.

**RocketSauce** · June 8, 2009

i too have noticed that a lot of professional players (on TV) rarely yell "fore". ive seen them point in that direction more than ive seen them yell, and they rarely even do that. they just seem to put their head down in disgust rather than try to warn spectators.

**Elvisliveson** · June 8, 2009

The bigger problem is not paying attention. If you are sitting next to a fairway or behind a green, you better be able to see the ball to know if it is coming at you. How many times do you see people walking in the rough and a drive bounce right next to them, completely oblivious that the ball is coming. You can warn people on every shot, but if they aren't paying attention, there is not much else you can do for them.

I agree. I was at the LPGA Sybase 3 weeks ago and saw that several times. I can specifically remember one time when Natalie Gulbis faded a drive into the crowd and the marshall's were yelling for everyone to cover up, which most did, but you had a few blithering idiots on cell phones completely unaware of what was going on. Unfortunately her drive missed them, lol.

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

...The bigger problem is not paying attention. If you are sitting next to a fairway or behind a green, you better be able to see the ball to know if it is coming at you. ...

Even if you are watching a player hit from 200 yards away it is nearly impossible to track a ball coming your direction. Often when waving a group up on a par-3, players in my group will see how ball ball starts off the club but then lose sight of it if it fades or draws toward us.

It is not reasonable to expect people sitting around a green to be able to track the trajectory of a speeding golf ball. It is very hard to do once the ball is up against the sky. Someone will get seriously hurt or die and then there will be all the customary '"after the fact" soul-searching and policy changes. Subpar

***iacas*** · June 8, 2009

Someone will get seriously hurt or die and then there will be all the customary '"after the fact" soul-searching and policy changes.

We've been playing tournament golf for how long? How many people have been hit in the head and, while seriously injured, recover within a few days?

I'm not saying nobody will ever die, but I also don't think that players are "more cavalier" nowadays about balls going into the crowds. That may or may not be true - and you can't prove it either way (nobody really can). And as a corollary, it seems to me that less balls are hit into the crowds these days than in the days of balata, when the ball spun (and thus curved) a heck of a lot more. I'm also not sure that players indicating that their ball is going left or right or long is going to do much. Most spectators look up at the sky or on the green to try to find the golf ball so they can clap or whatever - they're not watching the player or the marshals after the player hits the ball. Oh, and Tiger yelled and pointed on Friday on the 10th hole at Muirfield Village (his first) as his ball was headed towards the crowd near the green. Like him or not, Tiger seems to point and yell every time his ball is headed towards people.

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

We've been playing tournament golf for how long? How many people have been hit in the head and, while seriously injured, recover within a few days?

I know Tiger is better about than most, but he does not always indicate when he has flared one out into the gallery. Tiger and Anthony Kim are the two who I have noticed signaling the danger. No one else leaps to mind. What is true for sure is that the LPGA and European players are more willing to call out a warning than the PGA players. Anyone who watches all three tours will see that. Today the galleires are larger, the balls are harder and travelling faster. If that guy who got hit this weekend haad been facing the ball and got it in the eye, he would be half blind, maybe dead. The player knows where his ball is headed better than anyone and for them to just get pissed off and frustrated about their play without thinking of fan safety is unfortunate. I just don't think the PGA takes this seriously enough. And they won't till something really sad happens. SubPar

**Lemay427** · June 8, 2009

I wish I had a crowd to hit into when I play on the weekends. Its like having a fenceline around the entire hole.

But seriously, they probably should yell fore a tad louder.

**MPforthewin** · June 8, 2009

I thought it was Duval that doinked somebody, they were saying he went like bogey, double bogey cause he was waiting to hear if the guy was ok. Can you imagine if he died? Like Duval needs any more demons.....

**BigBoy** · June 8, 2009

If you watch the Cink shot again, you'll see that it actually hit the guy's sunglasses that were sitting on top of his head. You could see the shattered peices flying off his head when it hit. I think thats why the sound was louder and odd sounding. The glasses may have also made the blood a little worse.

So he's got a cracked head and broken sunglasses, nice Sunday at the golf course.

If I remember right, Cink went on a bit of a cold streak after that happened. I imagine have to chip a golf ball that has blood on it might make you a little off your game.

**denver_nuggs_15** · June 8, 2009

I am sure it will happen at some point. That is just the risk you take going to an event. I don't think that the problem is players not warning people. The bigger problem is not paying attention. If you are sitting next to a fairway or behind a green, you better be able to see the ball to know if it is coming at you. How many times do you see people walking in the rough and a drive bounce right next to them, completely oblivious that the ball is coming. You can warn people on every shot, but if they aren't paying attention, there is not much else you can do for them. I would think the bigger issue would be a player snap hooking a drive into the group of people 100 yards off the tee.

Do you know how hard it is to see a 300 yard drive? When I forecaddie, I stand anywhere from 150-200 yards away. It is almost impossible to see a ball that is coming directly at you...even from 150 yards away. I can't even imagine how hard seeing a ball 300 yards away is. And what about on adjacent holes? If I'm near the fairway of an adjacent hole and the guy hits towards me, there's no chance I

can see it. If he doesn't say "fore", I have no warning at all. And isn't there a negligence issue with this? I mean, if you are golfing and your ball hits someone in the head, aren't you negligent (I could be wrong, but I remember this in my Law class)? I also remember hearing that if you yell "fore" at over xx decibels, you are clear so long as you say it xx seconds before the guy gets hit. Something like that anyway. So, the warning is not only proper etiquette, but if I'm recall correctly, a legal issue.

**Marmitetoo** · June 8, 2009

I go to tournaments and stand around, purposely, just 'Waiting" to get hit by Tiger's Ball.....Man I'd love one of them autographed gloves!.....

No seriously though it is a fair point. However, if you look at Motor Sport as a spectator sport, there are so many deaths, accidents and injuries. People standing at fence lines right up against the track. I guess if you are a fan of a sport you are a fan, and you'll take your chances just to get up close to the action, regardless.

I think it's more likely we'll hear of someone being killed after being struck by lightning at a major tournament, before we hear of a death by golf ball.

Steve

***iacas*** · June 8, 2009

Anyone who watches all three tours will see that.

I watch all three tours and I disagree with what you've said.

Additionally, galleries are often closer at LPGA Tour and European Tour events (for various reasons), and so they're more likely to hit balls that wander off into the crowds.

Today the galleires are larger, the balls are harder and travelling faster.

A few years ago Little League baseball banned these "softer" baseballs they were using as a trial to minimize injuries. They discovered that the softer balls "stuck" longer and transferred more of their energy to the kids, resulting in worse injuries, than regular baseballs that glanced off a bit more quickly.

In other words, baseballs that hit a kid and then just fell to the ground transfer nearly 100% of their energy into the kid, while harder baseballs that hit and rebounded with some velocity maintained some of their energy and transferred < 100% into the kid. I imagine it's roughly the same with golf balls. So the firmer ball may actually be better. Most likely, though, it's completely irrelevant whether the balls are Titleist Tour Balatas or Titleist Pro V1s: any difference in "firmness" between the two is so minimal it really wouldn't matter. To put it another way, they're both pretty darn hard.

The player knows where his ball is headed better than anyone and for them to just get pissed off and frustrated about their play without thinking of fan safety is unfortunate.

So let me ask you this: what have you done about it besides post on this forum? I'm not implying that you haven't, but I will say that if this is all you've done, you must not care quite as much as you seem to.

Also, it's PGA Tour, not the PGA.

(I could be wrong, but I remember this in my Law class)?

High schools have law classes these days?

I also remember hearing that if you yell "fore" at over xx decibels, you are clear so long as you say it xx seconds before the guy gets hit. Something like that anyway. So, the warning is not only proper etiquette, but if I'm recall correctly, a legal issue.

I think you remember incorrectly. How on earth could anyone prove how many decibels you yelled? C'mon...

All the law I've seen is that unless you're negligent/reckless - i.e. you're literally trying to hit into people - you're exempt from hitting people on the golf course. You assume the risk of being hit by someone's ball when you play golf. So I think you remember wrong...

**shankapotamus** · June 8, 2009

A guy I know got hit in the stomach by Tiger. One free pair of Autographed TW gloves coming up =D

**mcfc_nick** · June 8, 2009

I know Tiger is better about than most, but he does not always indicate when he has flared one out into the gallery. Tiger and Anthony Kim are the two who I have noticed signaling the danger. No one else leaps to mind.

Shock AK is good at signalling! it must be second nature to him by now as almost every drive he hits is wayward!

**st0wgolf08** · June 9, 2009

Shock AK is good at signalling! it must be second nature to him by now as almost every drive he hits is wayward!

I really don't care how straight he hits his driver, or at least how straight you think he hits it. He shoots great scores and plays amazing. I'm sure his drives are quite a bit straighter than yours or mine.

**goblue107501** · June 9, 2009

Do you know how hard it is to see a 300 yard drive? When I forecaddie, I stand anywhere from 150-200 yards away. It is almost impossible to see a ball that is coming directly at you...even from 150 yards away. I can't even imagine how hard seeing a ball 300 yards away is. And what about on adjacent holes? If I'm near the fairway of an adjacent hole and the guy hits towards me, there's no chance I

I go to a pro tournament every year and it can be tricky picking up the ball from a tee shot. The times I don't see it I am looking at the tee marshal to see which way the ball is coming. They have guys on the tee to signal which way the ball is going. My point was that the spectators need to be paying attention to what is going on so they can take action if a ball is coming their way. There are sometimes hundreds of people lined up on the fairway, someone will see the ball and know if there is danger in the area. Yelling 'fore' isn't going to do any good at a pro tournament. No one will here it anyway.

There is one par 4 I go to and watch a difficult approach shot. Very few problems picking up the ball coming into the green for a 150 to 180 yard shot. If the people sitting greenside don't want to get hit, they shouldn't sit there. When the green is clear and someone is in the fairway, all they have to do is pay attention and will know if a ball is coming there way.

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