Yellow staked hazards on courses?

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

I play a number of courses around southern CA and I can't remember ever seeing a hazard marked with yellow stakes.

I recall seeing some yellow staked hazards years ago in Texas, but they seem to have vanished there as well. What is the reason for this... pace of play issues?

Do you play courses with hazards have any yellow stakes?

SubPar

**Fourputt** · June 8, 2009

I play a number of courses around southern CA and I can't remember ever seeing a hazard marked with yellow stakes.

If they aren't marking the course properly, then that is purely a local issue. I can't imagine that it would have anything to do with pace of play. Any water hazard which is more or less directly in the normal line of play should be marked with yellow stakes and lines as regular water hazard. If that isn't being done then it is in opposition to the normal recommendations for course marking.

My home course has an irrigation ditch that wanders through the property, and the ditch is marked alternately with red or yellow depending on its relationship to the play of the hole. If a section of the ditch lies on or across the normal line of play then it's yellow, but if it more or less parallels the line of play then it's red. It often runs parallel for a ways, then crosses the fairway. In such cases the stake color changes from red to yellow at the appropriate point.

**billm408** · June 8, 2009

IIRC, there's no hard and fast rule about yellow vs red. I could be mistaken, but I remember years ago sitting in on a conversation between the GM and course superintendent and they were discussing which hazards to mark which color.

Seems to me it's up to the course to decide. In this instance, they determined everything in front of the hole was yellow, everything behind or to the side was red. One particular lake was yellow on one side and red on the other because of how it came into play for the respective holes.

***iacas*** · June 8, 2009

IIRC, there's no hard and fast rule about yellow vs red.

One particular lake was yellow on one side and red on the other because of how it came into play for the respective holes.

Exactly - there are guidelines based on how a hole plays, where the hazard is in relation to the hole (i.e. right off the tee it's unlikely anyone will ever use the "drop within two clublengths" option that red stakes provide, so yellow is fine as most will just re-tee).

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

The USGA goes to some length to define a lateral hazard and in doing so, in effect, defines a "non lateral water hazard". But I don't find anything directly adressing when to use yellow stakes.

It seems to me, defining a latteral as one where it is "so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-1b" would mean any hazard where it is practicable to drop behind it could be marked yellow or not marked at all.

I have seen a drainage ditch across a fairway that is not marked, which means you could ground your club in it and try to play out or take an unplayable and drop behind it. I guess it would then be up to the course to decide if they want to define it as a hazard thereby disallowing the grounding of a club while playing out of it or encouraging one drop behind it under penalty of one stroke.

SubPar

**wachesawgolfer** · June 8, 2009

Its a local rule issue. Reds are easier to understand and most players expect red stakes around water. Most players could not even tell the options off the top of their head with yellow stakes, that I play with.

***iacas*** · June 8, 2009

The USGA goes to some length to

To clean up that link, here are the two that people would want to read:

http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id...ralWaterHazard http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253#WaterHazard 26-1b talks about dropping within two clublengths, which is something you're only ever able to do with a lateral water hazard. In other words, something "lateral" to the hole - to the side. Like a creek or river running down along the right side of a hole. Dropping on the other side of the creek - keeping the point of entry between you and the hole - may very well be reasonably impossible, so you can mark it as a lateral and let people drop within two. And that's the general idea. Yellow hazards go across the hole (so you can drop behind them), laterals (red) are along the side of the hole. The same creek can change from a yellow to a red hazard. At Whispering Woods, the fourth hole has just that situation.

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

Its a local rule issue. Reds are easier to understand and most players expect red stakes around water. Most players could not even tell the options off the top of their head with yellow stakes, that I play with.

It is pretty simple, if I have this right. You have the same options with a yellow staked hazard as a red staked hazard, but with the red (lateral) you have the added option of dropping two club lengths from the point the ball crossed the hazard line no closer to the hole, under penalty of one stroke.

With either red or yellow stakes, under penalty of one stroke you can:

drop the ball at a point behind the hazard keeping the point where the ball came rest between yourself and the flag.
you can go back to the point where the previous shot was played.

With a red staked lateral hazard have the option to drop two club lengths from the point the ball crossed the hazard line, no closer to the hole. I am guessing that it takes time and money to mark "non lateral hazards" with yellow stakes and paint so some courses have just left those with no markings. Also, I think there are "pace of play" considerations. Some holes have a fairly large water hazard in front and they still mark them red. They don't want people hitting in the side or rolling in the front of it and walking (or driving) all the way back to the other side to play the next shot. In many cases there is plenty or room to do that, but it slows everything down. SubPar

**ScottRempel** · June 8, 2009

Also, I think there are "pace of play" considerations. Some holes have a fairly large water hazard in front and they still mark them red. They don't want people hitting in the side or rolling in the front of it and walking (or driving) all the way back to the other side to play the next shot. In many cases there is plenty or room to do that, but it slows everything down.

If I'm imagining the situation correctly, that large water hazard would be marked with red stakes along the side and the front, with yellow stakes along the back. Marked properly, I can't think of a situation where you'd have to go back a long ways to replay your ball. After you hit you should know if you are in the hazard or not. If you are sure you cleared the hazard but then your ball rolled back in, you would get your two club lengths as the stakes on the far side of the water hazard would be red. If you are unsure that you cleared the hazard I think you would be entitled to play a provisional, no?

I'm no rules pro, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if marked properly there is no reason for yellow stakes to cause pace of play issues. Red stakes should be used anywhere that you can not reasonably take a drop keeping the point of entry between you and the flag...such as the side of the large pond in the right situation.

**SubPar** · June 8, 2009

If I'm imagining the situation correctly, that large water hazard would be marked with red stakes along the side and the front, with yellow stakes along the back. ...

If you have a large hazard and it is marked with yellow stakes, even if your ball rolled back in the front of it, you'd have to go back behind it to play. I don't think you'd have a situation where the back side is yellow and the front is red.

It happens, but is rare, that a single hazard would have partially red and yellow markings. That would apply to an "L" shaped water hazard. There was a water hazard in front of a green at the Memorial which was marked yellow all the way around, even along the side. If a ball rolled in the front of it the player would have to play from the back side. You can imagine at a municipal course, with all the denial and desire to hold onto a $3 golf ball, how many people would search for the ball and then drag themselves back around to play the shot from the correct place. One course in Camarillo Springs put in a drop area on a par-3 with a lateral water hazard just to keep play moving. SubPar

**billm408** · June 8, 2009

I can't think of a situation where you'd have to go back a long ways to replay your ball.

It happens. Had a situation not long ago on a local course. Short par 4 with a small lake protecting the green in front (staked yellow all the way around). One of the guys hit into a bunker behind the green and then knocked his shot across the green back into the lake. Drop is back in the fairway keeping the lake between himself and the hole.

**ScottRempel** · June 8, 2009

It happens. Had a situation not long ago on a local course. Short par 4 with a small lake protecting the green in front (staked yellow all the way around). One of the guys hit into a bunker behind the green and then knocked his shot across the green back into the lake. Drop is back in the fairway keeping the lake between himself and the hole.

Or drop back in the bunker again, no? I would imagine this would be the usual option selected unless it is some crazy green that slopes fast down into the water and it is very hard to stop the ball.

I think the courses I usually play would have red stakes along that front edge (edge nearer the green) of the water...will have to keep my eyes peeled.

***iacas*** · June 8, 2009

I am guessing that it takes time and money to mark "non lateral hazards" with yellow stakes and paint so some courses have just left those with no markings.

It would take just as long to mark them with red stakes as it would to mark them with yellow.

If you have a large hazard and it is marked with yellow stakes, even if your ball rolled back in the front of it, you'd have to go back behind it to play.

Or you could drop five clublengths away or ten or 15 or 1 - on the line from the point of entry and the flag.

There was a water hazard in front of a green at the Memorial which was marked yellow all the way around, even along the side. If a ball rolled in the front of it the player would have to play from the back side.

Yes, but none of the ones marked yellow were on the sides - laterally - to the hole, which again is where you typically find red stakes.

I think red stakes are over-used at normal golf courses around the country, but I think courses set things up that way because it gives the average golfer three options instead of just two.

**billm408** · June 8, 2009

Or drop back in the bunker again, no? I would imagine this would be the usual option selected unless it is some crazy green that slopes fast down into the water and it is very hard to stop the ball.

Unless the rules have changes recently, yellow stakes require you to keep the hazard between you and the hole, so dropping in the bunker wouldn't be an option.

In this instance, the green is pretty severely sloped in front with a shaved fringe. With a front pin, it's very easy to spin a ball back into the water. I don't think they had bladed bunker shots in mind when placing yellow stakes on the green side of the hazard.

**ScottRempel** · June 9, 2009

Unless the rules have changes recently, yellow stakes require you to keep the hazard between you and the hole, so dropping in the bunker wouldn't be an option.

Is the second option not to hit again from the original location (i.e. the bunker)?

**Fourputt** · June 9, 2009

Unless the rules have changes recently, yellow stakes require you to keep the hazard between you and the hole, so dropping in the bunker wouldn't be an option.

Rule 26-1b requires you to keep the

point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard between you and the hole. In some cases that may not require that the hazard itself be between you and hole.

**schapman** · June 9, 2009

Is the second option not to hit again from the original location (i.e. the bunker)?

Looks that way under 26-1a

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

**RemyM** · June 9, 2009

Looks that way under 26-1a

Some times this is your best option. During one round this year one of my playing partners hit a shot from the side of a green that deflected off a tree and went 50 yards down the hill behind him and into a water hazard. His best option was clearly to play from the spot he last played from.

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Yellow staked hazards on courses?

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