Who else is tired of handicap scammers?

**Rafcin** · July 10, 2006

My club organizes a season-long matchplay tournament (single elimination) which is being played with full handicap. Yesterday's match, that I lost, made me think again, that the golf handicap system is the biggest B.S. in any kind of competition ever invented. I played a guy, who was a 22 hcp - so with my 4 hcp I was giving him a stroke a hole. On the front nine (which is very tough at my course) he managed to play par-bogey-par-par-bogey-bogey-par-par-triple bogey, which is 6 over par = 42. In the meantime I shot :
birdie-par-par-par-birdie-bogey-double bogey-par-par for a 1 over par 37. You'd think I'd be in a good shape? Not really. I was 3 down. On the back 9 I was able to get back into it and reduce it to 1 down after 14, but 2 consecutive pars from my opponent got me closed on 16th with a score of 3 and 2. After closing the match he continued with a triple-triple on the last two holes and posted 91. I shot 76, which wasn't even CLOSE to keep me in the match.
What's wrong with that picture? I don't remember when I was pissed off more at a golf course...

**pgonza2723** · July 10, 2006

I can feel your pain and I have known some guys that deliberately keep their handicap high for the same reason as you've stated. I don't know if he was sandbagging with the last few holes, but it sounds like that guy's handicap is a little fluffed as well. The last little tourney scramble I as apart of (for work) we didn't put anyone against each other that had more than a 10 stroke handicap difference (you would have been paired with someone with a handi no higher than 14, etc). Oh well, just take it for what it is, brush it off, and move on....

**DDBowdoin** · July 10, 2006

well... its all about honesty (like everything else in the game) and it sucks when people do that... I play in a mini tour style tournament golf in Boston and people will fluff their handicaps to get easier to match ups and hence have a better chance at money where I am very honest with my own and usually get knocked out early as Im paired with much better players

**Rafcin** · July 10, 2006

...brush it off, and move on....

easier said than done. Surprisngly USGA verifies the 'negative sandbaggers', but does nothing to help us weed out pricks like that. What I mean is - if you enter USGA tournament with strict hcp limit and you shoot a high score - your eligibility for future tournaments can be revoked, unless you prove you have some success in competitive golf . It happend to a friend of mine, who entered US Open qualifier and shot 88. Lucky for him - he had whole bunch of Junior USGA trophies to they let him get away with it...

Froaderick · July 10, 2006

i was on a bowling league a few years back and we had a whole team of sandbaggers... they were all averaging below 170 for the first half then 'magically' the whole team started bowling 200+ every game... a few weeks before the finals, they were tossed out because of it. I wasnt a very good bowler at the beginning, had a 128 average. I bought a 'real' ball, took a couple of lessons, got my average up to 179 by the end. It's people like those sandbaggers that makes people who work at something to get better really frustrated. Because then you have everyone looking at YOU when you start to make real improvement. That why I'm not joining a golf league anytime soon until I get to a point where I feel I can compete and still have fun.

**Thrash13** · July 10, 2006

You just never know though. He might have played the best 16 holes of his life. That does happen, although this situation does sound like the regular sandbagging situation.

I'm on the opposite side of things. I play worse than my handicap, so I'm a sure bet to be a loser when I go up against a higher handicap. :/

**Rafcin** · July 10, 2006

You just never know though. He might have played the best 16 holes of his life. That does happen, although this situation does sound like the regular sandbagging situation.

I know the guy and he's notorious for that... can't give him the benefit of doubt this time. Last year in one of the stroke event (also handicapped) he managed to shoot 81 to win the "President Cup". At that time he was 26 hcp, but president cup winner gets a name on the plaque in the clubhouse... oh well. He's scum. I'll never enter any handicap event (except for Newport Cup - I trust you guys

).

**Wood** · July 10, 2006

One major flaw with the handicap system, although not to the cheating bastard extreme you played against, is one that I encounter. I AM going to blow up on a 2-3 holes , but for the most part, play at or below par for the rest of the round. In a match play situation, this is really frustrating to the consistent, good player whom I get to play.

On the flip side of that, I know a couple guys who when out of a hole, will just happen to three putt to keep the handicap up. Pricks.

**Thrash13** · July 10, 2006

On the flip side of that, I know a couple guys who when out of a hole, will just happen to three putt to keep the handicap up. Pricks.

That's definitely the part you can't really stop which is unfortunate.

**allin** · July 10, 2006

What about us types that are real streaky? Because I go through periods where I am making changes with an eye towards long term improvement and sometimes play a lot and other times very little, my play can be erratic. Since handicap is low 10 out of 20 I have a very difficult time playing to my handicap. I know it is about potential, but excluding your ten highest scores is not very accurate either. Probably a weighting factor of some kind is needed, or some other adjustment, maybe that the low five and highest five are both excluded? Highest, lowest 2. 3, whatever.

**thehillgolfer** · July 11, 2006

i never have understood the handicap system...its just kinda stupid, because if u shoot a bad score u can always just not record it (if u want to have a lower handicap, which is what i would want) but since my course isnt usga approved or something i cant even get an official handicap which annoys the crap out of me cuz i want to play in some of the state junior tourneys but since i dont have an official handicap i cant and i dont want to have to pay a bunch of money just to get a handicap...and i dont even have to worry about sandbaggers

***iacas*** · July 11, 2006

What about us types that are real streaky? Because I go through periods where I am making changes with an eye towards long term improvement and sometimes play a lot and other times very little, my play can be erratic. Since handicap is low 10 out of 20 I have a very difficult time playing to my handicap. I know it is about potential, but excluding your ten highest scores is not very accurate either. Probably a weighting factor of some kind is needed, or some other adjustment, maybe that the low five and highest five are both excluded? Highest, lowest 2. 3, whatever.

That's missing the point: your best 10 of 20 are recorded, yet you have guys shooting 10-15 strokes UNDER their handicap. THAT is sandbagging.

If you're streaky and your good streaks result in your 10 counted scores, it's pretty amazing (and darn near impossible) when your streak results in ten UNDER your handicap. You're supposed to have a hard time playing to your handicap. That's the point. I disagree entirely that the handicap system should be changed in the ways you suggest. You're suggesting they take the ten average scores, which would make it even easier to sandbag, cheat, and would provide an even worse idea of a golfer's potential.

**Rafcin** · July 11, 2006

agreed. additionally - hcp system doesn't work well in a matchplay scoring system, heavily disadvantaging lower handicap player. If your opponent gets a stroke a hole and makes 8 pars - he pretty much won 8 holes. He can go triple, quad on 4 - 5 holes to keep his handicap "legit", few bogeys - here it is - a 95. In the meantime somebody playing par golf, with couple of birdies and bogeys - loses the match 5&4.

**ragontona** · July 11, 2006

Agreement with iacas on this one. The USGA says that you should only play to your handicap once out of every four to five rounds.

***iacas*** · July 11, 2006

agreed. additionally - hcp system doesn't work well in a matchplay scoring system, heavily disadvantaging lower handicap player. If your opponent gets a stroke a hole and makes 8 pars - he pretty much won 8 holes. He can go triple, quad on 4 - 5 holes to keep his handicap "legit", few bogeys - here it is - a 95. In the meantime somebody playing par golf, with couple of birdies and bogeys - loses the match 5&4.

To add to this, I've played guys in league (ours is only 9 holes) who have shot 38 and 42 on 18 and 22 handicaps. I'm giving these guys (again, on nine holes) 6 and 8 strokes and would have had to shoot 32 and 34 to tie them, basically. These were a consistent nine holes, too - no doubles, etc. Tell me something's not fishy there?

Normally I don't have a problem with it, because as my team's #1 guy, I typically play guys nearly even - maybe I give them a stroke or two per 9 holes. But when they bring in a sub, like their #5 guy, it's nearly hopeless for me to win. Those guys will have a blowup hole or two, and I'll win those, but good luck to me on the other 7!!! I think the handicap system is the fairest in all of sports... except when you get outside of a certain range. For example: I have a weekly game with a 9 handicapper. I give him four strokes, two per side, and they almost all come on the par 5s. Which sucks, but it evens out over the span of an 18-hole nassau. Low handicappers love getting strokes on par 5s because they usually par them anyway - there's more time for them to recover from a bad shot and still par. High handicappers NEED strokes on par fives because there's more time for them to screw up. So - sandbaggers and obvious cheats aside - the handicap system is what it is. It's not a perfect system, but I doubt anyone could come up with anything "fairer."

**FAHooGolfs** · July 11, 2006

I used to play in a league around here that was about 70 guys, and we played stroke play once every 3 weeks or so. The problem was, the league kept its own "handicap" for the players based on how they played in the league, and they only awarded prizes to NET finishers!

So inevitably what you had happen was, the guy that won would shoot a net 62 or 63.... even had a guy win one time shooting a net 59! For me to beat that, I'd have to shoot a gross 63!

I only played in the league for one year, but the kicker for me was my best round in the league... shot a 75 (+3) on a very hard course and found myself tied for 23rd! From that point on, I was done with that league...

**mediaguru** · July 12, 2006

As a 2 I get clocked by handicappers.. For the last couple of years I'm much more happy only entering in tourneys or matches which are GROSS ONLY. If I lose then fine but I'm not going to to give a 24 handicap 2 strokes on a par 5 and have to eagle the damn thing to tie his par.

**wachesawgolfer** · July 12, 2006

That is a real problem for lots of people. Shoot great for 15 holes and blow up enough to stay in the low 90s. The mind just won't let you go there to the land of lower scores. To shoot 81 with a 26 handicap is insane. That club should adjust his hcp. lower, which they can do.

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