Butch Harmon...did you know?

**Chillmoon91** · July 3, 2010

He said something that literally blew me away, he said 90% of golfers hold the club incorrectly, and 90% of golfers cannot take the club away properly, according to my calculations thats 1 in every 100 people do both, when I heard this I immiediately focused on this and the results are incredible, think about the odds of you do both of these right a 1% chance!! I presume the 1% outta the 60 million who play are those who can really hit the ball properly, just something to think about

**Comeback City** · July 3, 2010

that's a nice insight and all...but...

can you tell us the right way to do each ??

**Shindig** · July 3, 2010

He said something that literally blew me away, he said 90% of golfers hold the club incorrectly, and 90% of golfers cannot take the club away properly, according to my calculations thats 1 in every 100 people do both, when I heard this I immiediately focused on this and the results are incredible, think about the odds of you do both of these right a 1% chance!! I presume the 1% outta the 60 million who play are those who can really hit the ball properly, just something to think about

Your calculations are correct only if both are independent probabilities. I suspect that a large fraction of the people who do one can do the other.

**Chillmoon91** · July 3, 2010

Your calculations are correct only if both are independent probabilities. I suspect that a large fraction of the people who do one can do the other.

Thats exactly what Im saying, those small percentage of people who do both correctly are the people who really hit the ball correctly, as for how to do it, theres info everyway but it does take alot of tedious practice and when you think you got it down its probably wrong just keep at it

***iacas*** · July 3, 2010

He said something that literally blew me away, he said 90% of golfers hold the club incorrectly, and 90% of golfers cannot take the club away properly, according to my calculations thats 1 in every 100 people do both, when I heard this I immiediately focused on this and the results are incredible, think about the odds of you do both of these right a 1% chance!! I presume the 1% outta the 60 million who play are those who can really hit the ball properly, just something to think about

Weren't you the guy who just said "stop listening to all the advice out there and just play golf" or something to that effect? How does listening to whatever Butch Harmon said - which I'd disagree with (heck, I don't think Butch Harmon teaches the proper way to take the club away, after all) - fit with your post from a day or two ago saying "bah" to all other kinds of magazine type tips?

Thats exactly what Im saying, those small percentage of people who do both correctly are the people who really hit the ball correctly

You seem to have missed his point.

The probabilities are not independent. It could very well be that 10% of people do both correctly, not 1 in 100. And I disagree that the people who "do" whatever Butch Harmon wants are the only ones who "hit the ball correctly." On the PGA Tour players have all sorts of grips and takeaways and yet they're the best in the world.

**Chillmoon91** · July 3, 2010

No I was referring to more elaborate instructions I was promoting basic fundamentals which grip and takeaway are so your mistaken there , I see where your coming from on the percentages though average maths studet here still you,d have too admit a very striking statement, as for pga tour players with incorrect grip thats complete bollox, varies from weak strong yes but as for faulty not a prayer, of course takeaways of pros are but inside and out, my point is it if you bring the club back on the correct line so many swing faults are taken out of the equation and with the correct grip impact is almost impossible 2 screw up

**michaeljames92** · July 4, 2010

No I was referring to more elaborate instructions I was promoting basic fundamentals which grip and takeaway are so your mistaken there , I see where your coming from on the percentages though average maths studet here still you,d have too admit a very striking statement, as for pga tour players with incorrect grip thats complete bollox, varies from weak strong yes but as for faulty not a prayer, of course takeaways of pros are but inside and out, my point is it if you bring the club back on the correct line so many swing faults are taken out of the equation and with the correct grip impact is almost impossible 2 screw up

Did this make any sense?

**Chillmoon91** · July 4, 2010

^ Tell me what your confused about, Id gladly explain it to you, however you should probably read my other thread too, otherwise yeah this mightnt make sense, BTW Adam scott is truly awful and unbelievable dull lol

**Harmonious** · July 4, 2010

No I was referring to more elaborate instructions I was promoting basic fundamentals which grip and takeaway are so your mistaken there , I see where your coming from on the percentages though average maths studet here still you,d have too admit a very striking statement, as for pga tour players with incorrect grip thats complete bollox, varies from weak strong yes but as for faulty not a prayer, of course takeaways of pros are but inside and out, my point is it if you bring the club back on the correct line so many swing faults are taken out of the equation and with the correct grip impact is almost impossible 2 screw up

Do they teach punctuation and grammar over there? I can't make out what you are saying, either. You could be making valid points, but no one would know.

**michaeljames92** · July 4, 2010

No I was referring to more elaborate instructions I was promoting basic fundamentals which grip and takeaway are

1. How is he mistaken? I think you are actually mistaken

2. "though average maths studet here still you,d have too admit a very striking statement" I've read this 9 times and still can't make any sense of it. 3. He never said PGA players have incorrect grips. 4. many player with good grips still can slice the crap out of it if they come over the top I Dare say you are mistaken

**michaeljames92** · July 4, 2010

Do they teach punctuation and grammar over there? I can't make out what you are saying, either. You could be making valid points, but no one would know.

I'm with you mate

**Chillmoon91** · July 4, 2010

1.If you read my last thread which iacar is refering to, you would understand he mentioned how I stated I dislike modern teaching intructions, when in fact I mentioned how I dislike over-elaborate modern instruction and prefer to focus on fundementals, so no he is wrong clearly, therefore I am not mistaken(shall I draw a diagram to better your understanding?)

2.Here I was refering to how I mis-calculated the percentages and apologised by saying Im an average maths student, then I went on to say the statement Butch made is still valid despite my mis-calculation

3.No he did not say PGA tour players have incorrect grips(sorry) but he did disregard the true importance of a fundementally sound grip, which most amateurs are unable to master

4.Now last the whole point of this thread was if you combined BOTH theses fundementals you would be way ahead of the pack, but you were too eager to point out mistakes and you accidentally failed to grasp the concept of this thread

I hope this cleared everything up for you, in fairness the internet is not a place for sound grammar I hope you come accustomed to this fact, haha and when an american comments on my grammar then I know I was a little hasty typing this out but its an internet forum so you have to make some allowances and lower your incredible high standards of grammar.

Now could we return to the topic at hand?

**Harmonious** · July 4, 2010

I hope this cleared everything up for you, in fairness the internet is not a place for sound

Grammar is important if you want to make yourself understood. Spelling doesn't hurt, either.

**Chillmoon91** · July 4, 2010

haha I did it on purpose...come on I just finished school so Im turning my brain off for a few months, seriously back to the topic, I edited it for you, spell "honour" or "colour" for me then lol serious though back to the topic

**RIduffer** · July 4, 2010

OK, back to the topic. Please explain the correct grip and takeaway Chillmoon91.

***iacas*** · July 4, 2010

1.If you read my last thread which iacar is refering to, you would understand he mentioned how I stated I dislike modern teaching intructions, when in fact I mentioned how I dislike over-elaborate modern instruction and prefer to focus on fundementals, so no he is wrong clearly, therefore I am not mistaken(shall I draw a diagram to better your understanding?)

I don't appreciate the snarkiness. Perhaps if you were able to write more clearly you'd be better understood. If your original point was that only the "over-elaborate" instruction is bad then nobody would disagree. The very use of words like "over-elaborate" (specifically "over") make it so. In other words, your point was poorly made before and it almost seems as if you're changing it now.

2.Here I was refering to how I mis-calculated the percentages and apologised by saying Im an average maths student, then I went on to say the statement Butch made is still valid despite my mis-calculation

How do you know that what Butch said is "valid"? How many students have you taught? Do you know how many non-beginners have a grip that's non-working, non-functional, or in any way in need of some sort of repair? Very, very few.

3.No he did not say PGA tour players have incorrect grips(sorry) but he did disregard the true importance of a fundementally sound grip, which most amateurs are unable to master

Actually, I don't believe that the grip is a true fundamental. Again, pros have won with all sorts of grips. There are some commonalities - grips are in the fingers more than the palms and the vast majority put the left hand above the right (for righties) - but that's about it.

And in no way are "most amateurs" "unable to master" the grip. Absolutely wrong.

4.Now last the whole point of this thread was if you combined BOTH theses fundementals you would be way ahead of the pack, but you were too eager to point out mistakes and you accidentally failed to grasp the concept of this thread

And I continue to disagree with the "whole point of this thread." A LOT of people do these things pretty well, and again, "the takeaway" and "the grip" see wide variations on the PGA Tour alone, so no, there's no need for commonality in order to play well.

in fairness the internet is not a place for sound grammar I hope you come accustomed to this fact, haha and when an american comments on my grammar then I know I was a little hasty typing this out but its an internet forum so you have to make some allowances and lower your incredible high standards of grammar.

Wow, smug and stupid at the same time? And no thank you - I'll keep my standards right where they are and encourage others to do the same.

OK, back to the topic. Please explain the correct grip and takeaway Chillmoon91.

Despite my response, I think this may very well fall into "do not feed the trolls." That's the category into which I've now filed this.

**Chillmoon91** · July 4, 2010

Ok wait scroll down and read my last thread the precise words I used were "over-complicated bs advice" these are the EXACT words no alteration, so I have no idea how you managed to concieve Im changing my position, no idea what so ever

Now lets face it, butch is one of the best coaches in the world you cannot disagree, so when this man one of the best coaches in the world makes an observation from his vast experience of teaching, many people would tend to give serious consideration to a statement he makes about amateur golfers
David leadbetter said 80% of swing faults originate from incorrect grip, many of these swing faults are attempted to be fixed by solving symptoms and not the true cause, 80% of the time being grip(according to David)

A good ballstriker holding the club in his palm with a poor takeaway.....you know yourself theres no such thing despite feeble attempts to convince yourself

High grammar standards on the internet will only lead to disappointment Im afraid, now seeing as Ive blown your argument outta the water I would like to hear other peoples reaction to this thread if you dont mind

***iacas*** · July 4, 2010

Now lets face it, butch is one of the best coaches in the world you cannot disagree, so when this man one of the best coaches in the world makes an observation from his vast experience of teaching, many people would tend to give serious consideration to a statement he makes about amateur golfers

Yes, because:

a) Butch sees so many "amateur golfers" on a daily basis he HAS to be in touch with things... and b) If someone who's ever been good at playing or teaching says something it MUST be correct... never mind that Nick Faldo still doesn't know the ball flight laws (for example...) or that Butch Harmon says your right knee should maintain the same flex...

A good ballstriker holding the club in his palm with a poor takeaway.....you know yourself theres no such thing despite feeble attempts to convince yourself

Enough with the slams, buddy.

First, I've not tried to convince myself of anything, so I certainly couldn't have done so in a "feeble" way. Second, I AM convinced that I could hit the ball solidly gripping the club just about any way I please - even cross-handed. It may not be the best way to hit the golf ball, but to say that the average amateur can't grasp how to grip the club or start the takeaway is 100% untrue.

High grammar standards on the internet will only lead to disappointment Im afraid, now seeing as Ive blown your argument outta the water I would like to hear other peoples reaction to this thread if you dont mind

Doing that would require a coherent response, and you've done no such thing ("blown my argument outta the water" or put together a coherent response).

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Butch Harmon...did you know?

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