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Score = 95 - 2 x GIRs

tdinneen

By tdinneen,
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tdinneen Established Member

tdinneen

OK, I'd like to start a thread based on the following article

http://golfdigest.com/instruction/br...k80greens.html

Here's the snippet I'd like to discuss

"Most golfers think putting is the biggest factor in scoring, but greens in regulation (GIRs) are much more important. So important, you almost don't need to look at anything else to predict your score. The most useful score-analysis tool I've developed, called "Riccio's Rule" and first published in Golf Digest in 1987, predicts score based on GIRs: Score = 95 – 2 x GIRs."

I usually hit 7-8 GIRs per round, based on the formula I should be going around in 79, yet I hit in the high 80's low 90's. This is all to do with my short game. Last night for example I hit 8 GIRs but had 8 triple putts and only 2 up and downs. 42 putts in total. So clearly for me putting is the biggest factor in my score (more than half my shots in this case).

If people can reply giving their score using that formula and their actual normal score that'd be great. And maybe discuss if you think the formula is accurate or not.

Mizuno F-50 3W DS S300
Titleist 906F2 5W UST V2
Titleist 585.H 21 DG S300
Mizuno MP-FLIHI 4 DG S300
Mizuno MP-32 5-PW DG S300Mizuno MP-R 52.07 DG Wedge FlexMizuno MP-R 56.13 DG Wedge FlexTitleist Vokey Spin Milled 60.04 DG Wedge FlexScotty Cameron Studio Newport 2

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laconic517
laconic517

not really because they hit way more greens, putting stats are a bit flawed

smlxl
smlxl

I keep my scores in excel... so I did a little investigating. I isolated all of my scores from this year and last where I shot 90 or better and kept track of GIR. Over 22 rounds, the difference betwee

$2 Nassau
$2 Nassau

No offense man, but it's tough to believe anything you say on this message board. One minute you talk about bombing 300 yard drives, then the next you talk about all the "toppers" you hit off the tee

CG031 Great Member

CG031

NOT TRUE - My dad hit 16/18 G.I.R. and still shot an 80 last week.

Driver Ping G10 10.5*
Hybrids Ping G5 (3) 19* Bridgestone J36 (4) 22*
Irons Mizuno MP-57 5-PW
Wedges Srixon WG-504 52.08 Bridgestone WC Copper 56.13
Putter 33" Scotty Cameron Studio Select #2

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Well let's see. I average about 7.2 greens in regulation, judging by my yearly stats. So that's:

95 - (7.2 * 2) = 95 - 14.4 = 80.6.

My handicap index is 4.5, so no, it doesn't really work out for me. It's consistently off by about four shots. I must putt better than most people.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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CG031 Great Member

CG031

Well let's see. I average about 7.2 greens in regulation, judging by my yearly stats. So that's:

Wait you only hit about 7 G.I.R.? If I read that right, you must have one hell of a short game!

Driver Ping G10 10.5*
Hybrids Ping G5 (3) 19* Bridgestone J36 (4) 22*
Irons Mizuno MP-57 5-PW
Wedges Srixon WG-504 52.08 Bridgestone WC Copper 56.13
Putter 33" Scotty Cameron Studio Select #2

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green6767 Well Established Member

green6767

considering his handicap....yes....he must!

In The Bag:

Driver: R7 SuperQuad 460 9.5
3 Wood: G5 w/ Graffaloy Pro Launch Stiff
3-PW: MP60's Wedges: Black Pearl 52, 56, 60Putter: White Hot #4Ball: Pro V1

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Wait you only hit about 7 G.I.R.? If I read that right, you must have one hell of a short game!

Not necessarily. 40% GIR is about 7.2 greens, yeah.

Current stats on the year so far: GIR: 40.5% Fairways: 45% Total Putts: 29.55 PPGIR: 1.87 (PP = putts per) PPMGIR: 1.45 (M = missed) Scrambling: 37.35% Up and Down: 47.51% Sand Save: 34.04% Nothing super spectacular. I am good at avoiding three-putts. I almost always give myself a chance when I miss the green, and remember, sometimes a missed GIR is just a putt from the fringe. Those are just as easy to make or "get up and down" as a two-putt from on the green.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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CG031 Great Member

CG031

That is AWESOME putting then. What's the secret? My dad hits about 60 percent of G.I.R. but still shoots high 70's low 80's...haha.

Driver Ping G10 10.5*
Hybrids Ping G5 (3) 19* Bridgestone J36 (4) 22*
Irons Mizuno MP-57 5-PW
Wedges Srixon WG-504 52.08 Bridgestone WC Copper 56.13
Putter 33" Scotty Cameron Studio Select #2

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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That is AWESOME putting then. What's the secret? My dad hits about 60 percent of G.I.R. but still shoots high 70's low 80's...haha.

30 putts isn't awesome putting. Let's get back on topic now.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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CG031 Great Member

CG031

30 putts isn't awesome putting. Let's get back on topic now.

How do you not think so? 29.50 putts per round is outstanding. That's even better then a lot of tour players, no?

Driver Ping G10 10.5*
Hybrids Ping G5 (3) 19* Bridgestone J36 (4) 22*
Irons Mizuno MP-57 5-PW
Wedges Srixon WG-504 52.08 Bridgestone WC Copper 56.13
Putter 33" Scotty Cameron Studio Select #2

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lamebums Great Member

lamebums

Not true. I hit 10-12 greens a round but usually struggle to break 90.
"Shouldn't you be going faster? I mean, you're doing 40 in a 65..."

Driver: Burner TP 9.5*
3 Wood: 906F2 15*
2I: Eye 23I-PW: 3100 I/HWedges: Vokey Spin-Milled 56*06, MP-R 52*07/60*05Putter: Victoria IIBall: Pro V1xCheck out my new blog: Thousand Yard DriveHome Course: Kenton County...
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tdinneen Established Member

tdinneen

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So far we've got

tdinneen - GIR formula 79 in reality 90, so +11 shots off
CG031's Dad - GIR formula 61 in reality 80, so +19 shots off
iacas - GIR formula 80.6 in reality 76.5, so - 4.1 shots off
irfan - GIR formula 81 in reality 88, so +7 shots off
lamebums - GIR formula 73 in reality 90, so + 17 shots off

So other than iacas (who obviously has a solid short game with a 1.87 GIR putting average and almost 50% saved chips / pitches, Tiger's stats albeit for all greens GIR'd or not is 1.8 which is taken from 29.5 putts per round on average taken from http://sportsline.com/golf/stats ). Everyone else like me suffers from.. well I won't say bad short game, but if they were to sort out the short game they'd start shooting way lower.

Mizuno F-50 3W DS S300
Titleist 906F2 5W UST V2
Titleist 585.H 21 DG S300
Mizuno MP-FLIHI 4 DG S300
Mizuno MP-32 5-PW DG S300Mizuno MP-R 52.07 DG Wedge FlexMizuno MP-R 56.13 DG Wedge FlexTitleist Vokey Spin Milled 60.04 DG Wedge FlexScotty Cameron Studio Newport 2

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lamebums Great Member

lamebums

Oh, I'll be the first to admit that my short game sucks. I can't get a green to hold my wedge shots, or I completely skull/blade the ball off the other side of the green. Then when I get on, I three and four putt. I can stick it better with an iron than a pitch shot.
"Shouldn't you be going faster? I mean, you're doing 40 in a 65..."

Driver: Burner TP 9.5*
3 Wood: 906F2 15*
2I: Eye 23I-PW: 3100 I/HWedges: Vokey Spin-Milled 56*06, MP-R 52*07/60*05Putter: Victoria IIBall: Pro V1xCheck out my new blog: Thousand Yard DriveHome Course: Kenton County...
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tdinneen Established Member

tdinneen

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"I can stick it better with an iron than a pitch shot."

Same here!! Right now if I were on a 260 yard par 3, I'd take an 8 off the tee followed by a PW (basically two full swings) rather than a 3 wood followed by a 30 yard chip. At least then I'd have a chance at par

Mizuno F-50 3W DS S300
Titleist 906F2 5W UST V2
Titleist 585.H 21 DG S300
Mizuno MP-FLIHI 4 DG S300
Mizuno MP-32 5-PW DG S300Mizuno MP-R 52.07 DG Wedge FlexMizuno MP-R 56.13 DG Wedge FlexTitleist Vokey Spin Milled 60.04 DG Wedge FlexScotty Cameron Studio Newport 2

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laconic517 Dedicated Member

laconic517

How do you not think so? 29.50 putts per round is outstanding. That's even better then a lot of tour players, no?

not really because they hit way more greens, putting stats are a bit flawed
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smlxl Established Member

smlxl

I keep my scores in excel... so I did a little investigating. I isolated all of my scores from this year and last where I shot 90 or better and kept track of GIR. Over 22 rounds, the difference between the formula and my actual score was an average of just 0.13 strokes higher. [ average ( 95-GIR*2 - score) ]

There were quite a few times that the formula was 6 higher or 6 lower for individual scores. The biggest discrepancy was 8 strokes, I still can't remember how I shot an 83 hitting just 2 greens :)

Taken in aggregate [ (95-average GIR * 2) - average score ] the formula was 1.14 strokes higher than my actual average for the same rounds.

Pretty close either way, and since the author presents a similar argument in this other article , I'm sticking with 8 (44%) as my target for GIR.
  • Informative 1
Cleveland - HiBore XL (9.5* Fuji Fit-On Gold Stiff)
Bobby Jones/Jesse Ortiz - 3W & 21* H3 (Stock Stiff)
Ben Hogan - Apex FTX 4-FW (Apex 4 shafts)
TaylorMade - rac TP 56.12 satin & 60.6 black
Scotty Cameron - Mil-Spec Newport 2 (33" standard)
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dkm978 Established Member

dkm978

Isn't part of the flaw that if you hit 0 GIR you get a 95?

I do realize it is prediction, and I suppose it gives a ballpark.
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hurley9192 Well Established Member

hurley9192

there is no way a 90 shooter averages 10-12 greens/round. I would imaging that Erik's stats are similar to most...I average 8 GIR and I'm a 4. Most single digit guys tend to have a decent short game, but 12 GIR is 66% and that's tour level. and the guy that hit 16 greens and shot 80 isn't too far off if his other 2 were double's.

If you are above 0 in the formula, then you have a below average short game and below 0 is an above average short game. It's a telling stat. I've been tracking my scores on golfdigest.com/challenge and see that I have an 8 handicap long game and a lower handicap in the short game. I can save most holes from random places. My putting isn't great...probably 32/round.

Driver: 9.5 905R 757 Speeder X stiff
3 Wood: 13.0 Sonartec GS Tour Red Ice 70X
Hybrid: 17.0 Sonartec MD Stiff UST IROD
Irons: 690cb 4-PW w/Rifle 6.0
Wedges: Cleveland 900 Series Gunmetal 50, 54, 60Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Newport 370g head

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