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My Swing (WillM)

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 

I've been Playing Golf for:​ Since I could stand on my own two legs

My current handicap index or average score is: 80-85

My typical ball flight is: Cut that gets more pronounced as the clubs get longer, flight itself is pretty good, piercing, good launch angle, etc.

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: The Cut/Fade/Slice.

 


I have been playing golf my whole life and have just gotten serious about it. I also have had this slice for my whole life and I have improved it steadily over the years but now I have hit a wall which is extremely frustrating. Hank Haney said the only way to become a better golfer from a slice is to work to a hook and then from there to a good golf shot... I would like to eventually be able to shape shots but if it could just go straight, I would be perfectly happy. Any glaring things in the swing I am missing? Any tips or drill? Thanks!

I am gripping EXTREMELY down because of a low ceiling. I do not normally grip that low. I grip the golf club like a normal person. As far as neutral/strong/weak though, that is how I normally grip, if it makes a difference.

 

Videos:

 

 

post #2 of 45

it's set to private

post #3 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by logman View Post

it's set to private

seems to happen on about every other member swing post... lol

post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 

Wow I am such an idiot lol, I didn't think of that when I posted the videos. Anyway, they should be fixed now :) Thanks for letting me know!
 

post #5 of 45

It's pretty tough to see what's going on unless you're hitting real balls. My own practice swings (sadly) look a lot different than my actual swings. I think you'll get a lot more feedback if you post a swing from the driving range.

post #6 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkling8 View Post

It's pretty tough to see what's going on unless you're hitting real balls. My own practice swings (sadly) look a lot different than my actual swings. I think you'll get a lot more feedback if you post a swing from the driving range.

Agreed... everyone has good looking practice swings :)
post #7 of 45

Sliding your hips instead of turning hence your shoulders dropping and popping out on the other side to compensate your power!

 

And because of your sliding you cant close the club face as fast as your hips hence your wrist flipping upon impact which WILL cause a bad hook when you figure out the proper shoulder/hip turn.

 

Power should come from your leg/hips lastly.  TURN.

post #8 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberman View Post

Sliding your hips instead of turning hence your shoulders dropping and popping out on the other side to compensate your power!

 

And because of your sliding you cant close the club face as fast as your hips hence your wrist flipping upon impact which WILL cause a bad hook when you figure out the proper shoulder/hip turn.

 

Power should come from your leg/hips lastly.  TURN.

 

I disagree.

 

And it's a practice swing - let's see a golf ball being struck.

post #9 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberman View Post

Sliding your hips instead of turning hence your shoulders dropping and popping out on the other side to compensate your power!

 

And because of your sliding you cant close the club face as fast as your hips hence your wrist flipping upon impact which WILL cause a bad hook when you figure out the proper shoulder/hip turn.

 

Power should come from your leg/hips lastly.  TURN.

 

I also disagree. Opening the hips keeps the clubface open if anything, because the arms aren't in the right position at impact. Turning too much doesn't get the arm in front enough of the chest, giving the hands time to close the face into impact. 

post #10 of 45
Thread Starter 
I've been Playing Golf for: my whole life​ 
My current handicap index or average score is: 4.8
My typical ball flight is: High cut
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: The pull fade with a light seasoning of slices.

My divots point left of the target but there is no go to flaw that suggests why so I am posting here. My swing plane is neutral if not slightly under plane but I can't for the life of me figure out why I still fade the ball with a pull. Help?

Videos:

FO Swing:
http://youtu.be/hj7YHlLNHp0

DL Swing:http://youtu.be/rXm6580HEY0
post #11 of 45

@WillM ,

 

I edited your post by embedding the video.  This is done by pushing the film button in the middle second row and adding the Youtube URL.  This makes it easier for forum members to view your video.

 

Thanks for posting the videos.

post #12 of 45

Will, two things, a comment and a question:

  • It's not unusual for divots to point left even on draws. If they're severely left, then it's a good indicator, but otherwise divots make bad indicators. Here's a thread on that: Divots Pointing Left .
  • You're certain that your contact is good? No heel jobs? Gonna assume it's good, but please tell us if it's a little in the heel and that you've confirmed it.

 

I'll try to get back to you later today. In the meantime peruse and post on the rest of the site. :)

post #13 of 45
Thread Starter 
@boogielicious thanks for embedding them. I was trying to do it quickly from my phone.

@iacas My contact is usually pretty good. I will never miss heel side, mostly off the toe. Most of the time my divots will be 5-10 yards left of the target but every once in awhile I will get one that is 25-30 yards left... That is pretty severe. But again, at least to me, there is nothing to indicate that I am pulling across the ball that hard.
post #14 of 45

This is a great example of a good player's swing and how even video can fool some people (particularly when a) it's not shot from the best angles, or at least the angles that best illustrate this kind of thing, and b) it's not slow motion at all).

 

Basically, in golf geek terms, you're rolling the third accumulator from 6 to 7 really hard, and that shifts not only the face left but the path left quite a bit as well. It can look like your clubhead's on an OUTward path at 6, but still be going INward at 7 due to #3.

 

In non-golf-geek terms… You're rotating your left forearm and wrist too much through impact. This rotation sends the path of the club to the left, even though it can look like it's slightly right-ward.

 

The funny thing is… the more the ball cuts, the more the tendency is for you to try to roll the face more. This is where the ball flight laws can help you, though again "path is instinctual." To make a ball curve right, you swing left more. To make a ball curve left, or lessen the right curve it already has, you swing RIGHT more.

 

Eventually you may want to tackle some other things in your swing (your "URC" or "upper rotational center" moves back in the backswing a bit, for example). Don't worry about this stuff now though.

 

Here's the plan for now:

  1. Get the left hand grip a little more in the fingers and probably a touch stronger. This will help you to eliminate the feeling that you "need" to roll the face a little to "close it" (a feel) so you can stop hitting cuts. So, again, a little more in the fingers, and a tad stronger, in the left hand. A good thread on this is here: How to Grip a Golf Club, Commonalities of a Functional Golf Grip.
  2. You're going to want to hit some balls feeling like, from the position on the downswing when the shaft is horizontal to the ground (what we call "A6" or "6" here on the site, and elsewhere), through to A8 (shaft horizontal on the follow-through) you do two things: 1) RAISE THE HANDLE quite high, and 2) FEEL NO ROLL of the left forearm.

 

In talking about this video with Dave (he confirmed my suspicions on the core issue here), he reminded me of a drill for which we plan to shoot a video soon:

 

Quote:
Imagine a wall just in front of the ball (on the target side) and perpendicular to the target line. On the downswing, take the hands to the wall and then continue to push the hands UP that wall after impact. Do not take your hands left along that wall, but up the wall.

 

Here are some images:

 

 

Just enough of a roll here to send the path a little left. Otherwise in VERY good shape here.

 

 

Grip is a bit weak, probably a tad palmy, but otherwise good impact position. The second frame illustrates how quickly the hands are rolling over through impact though.

 

 

Again shows how quickly the club kicks "around the corner" on the downswing.

 

So the feel is taking the handle UP more, as indicated here:

 

 

While also not rolling the forearm over (your wrists rolling across each other):

 

post #15 of 45
Thread Starter 
Wow that analysis is more than I could've expected. Thanks so much. I will definitely go out and work on this.

Would this forearm over rotation show up in a over rotated Clubhead in the follow thru? As in when the club is coming out of the shoulder the toe wouldn't be pointing straight up but more towards 10-11 o'clock?

As for my head moving around, I have been aware of that for a long time. It was a by product of me starting to actually rotate my hips in my backswing. Never really got around to fixing it.

My biggest question, this might sound uninformed, wouldn't raising the handle at/through impact cause me to catch the ground with the toe first and start hitting more of a fade? Or is it just the THOUGHT of raising the handle?
post #16 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillM View Post

Would this forearm over rotation show up in a over rotated Clubhead in the follow thru? As in when the club is coming out of the shoulder the toe wouldn't be pointing straight up but more towards 10-11 o'clock?

 

Not necessarily, no. It would tend to, but it doesn't have to.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillM View Post

As for my head moving around, I have been aware of that for a long time. It was a by product of me starting to actually rotate my hips in my backswing. Never really got around to fixing it.

 

Not really the priority right now though.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillM View Post

My biggest question, this might sound uninformed, wouldn't raising the handle at/through impact cause me to catch the ground with the toe first and start hitting more of a fade? Or is it just the THOUGHT of raising the handle?

 

Not up so much in that direction (i.e. uncocking the wrists), though there may be some more of that, but it will be minor. It's more raising the handle up the wall, which keeps the handle out to the right a little, and thus keeps the sweetspot (Key #4) traveling outward longer while slowing the rate of closure (RoC) just a tad.

post #17 of 45
Thread Starter 

I've been Playing Golf for:​ 15 years (competitively for 2.5)

My current handicap index or average score is: 0.5

My typical ball flight is: Draw

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: the block and misses off the toe

 


 

I am always trying to gather more information about the golf swing so whatever you can share helps!

 

Videos:

 

Here is my swing down the line.

 

 

 

Some thoughts/questions/comments:

 

I have worked to get more upright in my setup and am pretty pleased with where it is now. My takeaway is normally pretty clean, but for some reason this one is a bit under plane. It is the most recent one I could find. Once I get to the top of my backswing I hate almost everything after that......... Currently my teacher wants me working to get my left arm closer to my body at impact to stop my hands from releasing independently of the body.

 

The two things I want to fix most are my transition at the top of my backswing and the way my lower body works in the swing. I used to be a baseball player so it is a bit out of wack... Notice how severely my left foot rolls before I even get to impact? I don't know what to do about that but it frustrates me beyond belief. I fall to my heels and my head moves all over the place and there are some days where I am frankly surprised I can hit a golf ball. Good hand-eye coordination I guess. Anyway, that is my main complaint. Transition is a little ugly but I can live with it.

 

Seriously though, compare the way my left foot moves to basically every other pro out there (except maybe kinda Spieth) and it definitely does not look the same... On some swings I can't hold my balance I roll so far. It can't be good for my foot either.

 

Also. This video has a swing which is more laid off at the top. I can go between across the line and laid off, as well as neutral, pretty easily. I have a good sense of where the club head is so I can basically make it look however I want. My question is, what works best? My teacher wants me across the line just a tiny bit but I feel like I can't hit a cut/fade out of that position if I need to so I have kept it more laid off. Thoughts? This is maybe a more personal style thing? Tiger was successful with both... then again he was Tiger Woods.

 

I mentioned misses off the toe. Those usually happen with the longer clubs, about 5 iron and higher. It is quite frustrating to have 200 yards in and leave it 30 yards short because I can't hit the ball pure... My guess is this will fix itself if some one can help me figure out a good drill for my lower body, just thought I would mention it is only with longer clubs.

 

Last thing, my club comes out a bit low in the follow through at times but again, I think that will improve a lot if I get my lower body working the right way.

 

Here is my face on swing:

 

 

 

Not too many things to say here, this video is about a month and a half old. I don't get the chance to film FO very much. Maybe a little under rotated with the upper body. I create a good amount of lag... Not much else I can think of. I've made a few posture adjustments since when this was taken but that is it.

 

Who ever responds, thank you for taking the time to analyze this and provide feedback.

post #18 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillM View Post

 

Maybe a little under rotated with the upper body. I create a good amount of lag... Not much else I can think of. I've made a few posture adjustments since when this was taken but that is it.

 

I would agree with that. I'd focus on getting that left shoulder to work down and across more.

 

 

 

With your posture I would recommend lowering your eyes so you can see the ball out of your central vision.

 

 Good Golf Posture (How to Address the Golf Ball) 

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