shafting and swing weight questions.

Ive been doing lots of practicing and jotting down numbers and really measuring out what club does what for me. and looking into rounding out my first custom order. but got to the shafts and started questioning some things. will do this in sections and is someone can help with a particular section it would be appreciated.

Section A: Testing

Notes: when on toe or heal 3/4 inch from center shots all seemed to be in near identical placement no substantial "variable" or mid way between the placements. (Shafts are graphite)

my 9 Iron is 36 and 3/8th inch, out of 50 shots

1 low toe (3/4 inch off center)

3 toe (3/4 inch)

2 low shots

44 shots dead center (within 1/8th of an inch)

my 7 iron 37 and 1/4 inch out of 50 shots

2 low toe (3/4 inch off center)

4 toe (3/4 inch)

2 low shots

42 center hits (within 1/4-1/3 inch)

my 3 Iron (5 iron missing from set) 39 and 1/4 inch

5 low toe (3/4 inch)

11 toe (3/4 inch, again tight pattern for toe shots)

10 low shots (2 of which were complete whiffs)

3 heel shots (3/4 inch)

21 center shots (within 1/4-1/3 inch)

Section B: Shaft selection

Notes: when selecting a lower weight shaft will need to weight the shaft with powder or weights to get swing weight back.

trying to decide on the (stiffs all the way across) UST iRod Transition, UST hYB Hybrid shafts, UST dRVR wood shaft (for the fairways).

Or if the extra spent on Fujikura Fit On Max 75 Iron($10 more per shaft), Matrix Ozik Altus 5.1 Fairway Shaft (for fairways and hybrids, about $10-$13 more per shaft).

Is the extra $110-$120 REALLY worth it? The latter two are on a big sale atm were I am looking. kick/launch is the same on them, torque are within .3 in each case is there more consistency of shafts or something?

Section C: Length/weight selection

The length on my mid/lower irons feel good, the longer irons as shown above get away from me. but mostly towards the toe, was I was thinking lengthening over all about 1/4 inch but kinda leary as I am already a bit long for control. testing the Ping G30s at 1/2" long (steel shafts) the 7 iron was just plain awesome to swing. really consistent and felt good. the RSi felt a bit heavier and as standard. I got better distance and shot pattern out of the RSi (assuming much of this is their face slot technology) but I would rather swing the Pings.

Physical differences were primarily the swing weights. the ping stock is D0 and the RSi is D2.5 (in steel) -1 on each for graphite versions. how much of a mass/velocity difference is there since the head weights are the same (7i for 7i) 272 grams? with all shafts I selected there would need to be weighting done to even hit the D0 mark. and don't know if it would be worth the feel difference to gain those 2-2.5 swing weights what would be the distance loss really be? or would there be enough to tell?

I was also curious about plateauing the length at the length of my 7 Iron since its the last club I seem to hit relatively consistent. being 2* flat on clubs as is it wouldn't be to hard for the adjustment on the longer clubs (and tossing out the 3 and 4 irons in favor of the hybrids). my understanding is loss of distance/consistent gapping between the lengths due to velocity. but would adjusting their lofts make up for this? 1* on the 6 and 2* on the 5? I know I would be more consistent with the contact. then leaving the other irons standard+ my length increase I normally have. anyone know how much loft change I would need to use to make up for the loss of 1/2" each club?

My swing slows down on the clubs beyond the 7i due to trying to make consistent contact and make them playable so my distances with these are already squashed up in the long irons. They just feel like more work and am not comfortable with them the longer they get and the 5,6 hybrids just ain't my thing.

I know there are lots of information in a single post, that's why I separated a bit. if people can even help with even one section it would help. if you have supporting data I LOVE data/test results :) but not necessary. any questions about my testing or my theory please just ask I will explain best I can if this way does not translate correctly.

I looked at that list before, nearest city ain't on that list. closest I think is about 250 away from here.

I got a lot of information from the fitter. seemingly one of the better fitters after I went to another place. but for fine details he couldn't give up or he would have to charge for a fitting. he did let me "test" a lot of variations between other customers.

one of the other places their fitter kinda leaned over a partition while checking lie on my 56* acted like I was taking his precious time from talking with his buddies (they weren't doing anything else) adjusted the lie like a ape, said "close enough" and handed it back to me, I half wonder if the loft didn't go to 57 from the angle he was jerking the tool was very forward.. he was drinking coffee and crackin jokes before I even got to their check out clerk.

trying to dial it in a little before ordering. and don't want to spend a 20-25% of my club budget to do it if possible.

Depends on the overall weight of the club, how the shaft loads in the golf swing. Swingweight is just how much weight is on one side of the a predefined focal point (clubhead versus butt end).

Still, you can have a swing weight in the C8 range and could be heavier overall than a D2 club if I stick counterbalance weighting at the butt end of the club. You could also hit a D4 swing weight club farther than a C8. No really correlation between swing weight and distance loss.

To me swing weight is an out of date system.

Hard to tell how much distance you'd loose. Not only does a club get longer as the lofts get stronger, but the weight of club goes down as well.

The issue you might have with going the shorter club length is, when you make those clubs stronger you give up height. So you might get proper gapping, but you also might hit the ball to low to hold the greens.

If you struggle with the long irons, then maybe look at hybrids or a mixed set of irons. Like more game improvement irons for the 4-5-6 irons, then transition to a better players iron for the 7 to PW.

I agree with @boogielicious , find a good fitter. You might gain a lot more consistency in the long irons if they are properly fitted. I wouldn't go to the extreme of going to single length clubs for 7 thru 4 iron till you get fitted and see how that works out.

I was thinking the same thing about the swing weight about effective mass. I can understand that weight in the lower shaft even up through a portion of the shaft itself can be a pulling for changing center of gravity, but when the grips change the swing weight DOWN it didnt make much sense as mass is pushed to the exterior of the arc (centric force) the grip or butt end weights may change the feel but I didnt see where actual contact mass would increase or decrease. if my hands were a true fulcrum point and the butt was heavily weighted I can see it increasing mass on the other end. if anything how it is and the whole unit is extended out seems that all mass would add to impact rather then take away. but I was going by gathered common knowledge.

club selection I decided on are the RSi style heads. from 5-LW so have GI heads in mind. and 3,4 Hybrid 3 Wood. the comfortable 7 iron length I have and tested in like 6-7 brands/models all push the 24/38 rule at 37 1/4. not dead set on plateauing them but wondered if anyone had success in similar. even the RSi as forgiving were felt like I was wrestling to much with the club head at the end of a wobbly stick which gave me some erratic results from over correcting for feel, closing to quickly or leaving it open to correct for previous closed hit. they never "slid into groove".

I appreciate all the input :) and yes I am soaking it in and weighing it all.

Swing weight is just a static measurement on a set focal point, I believe 15" from the putt end of the club.

Its hard to get funky numbers, like heavy clubs, but low swing weight because of the clubs are made.

The golf head can be upwards of 50-60% the weight of the club. Look at a driver, 200g head, 65g shaft, 55g grip. If you go crazy with counterbalancing you could get a heavy club with a light swing weight.

Swingweight has nothing to do with how the club moves, its just a static measurement. Really the dynamic loading pattern of the golf shaft matters more. That is where a good fitter comes in.  Still in the end it's just trial and error.

I have Titleist woods and drivers and play around with swingweight a lot (thanks to the interchangeable weights). I also own a swingweight scale (best purchase I have made).

In my experience, swingweight goes hand in hand with shaft weight. You should not look at swingweight on its own. In the end you should choose the right combination of shaft weight and swingweight that gives you the best tempo.

I did an experiment once. Two identical driver heads, one had a heavy shaft and the other a light shaft, selected  the proper weights so BOTH clubs had a D2 swingweight. The club with the heavier shaft felt too heavy. I could not swing it properly. I could only swing it with the proper tempo if I changed it to a D0 swingweight. However, the club with the light shaft felt good with the D2 swingweight.

thats what I was afraid of and trying to find out on part of it. thank you.

point of relief! I was getting distraught but a few things, wanting better then just rack offerings retooled or off the rack higher end stuff. I want and feel much better with proper fitted clubs and the custom fitting prices I ran into around this area were just crazy. 100 dollars and up. there goes the plan I had set up, but found a club maker that's been doing it for over 20 years and has launch monitors and all the gadgets to go with. smaller company (locally owned) is certified. if I don't like what they have to offer for heads/shafts etc then its only 30 bucks! and where the other fitters were only allowing certain clubs/models to be tested (unless used), what he has on the shelves is also in the fitting area! I know the Ben Hogan's are way better of a club then I am a golfer but I can't wait to give them a few (dozen) swings! I'll try to get in there in next few days and I'll let you know how it turns out if I can.

but any opinions of the above things still welcome, I might be able have them help me with testing out something as an option.

thanks guys :)

The range of things you're interested in would be covered in a dynamic fitting. It would cost some $$, but you'd have a full assessment of your swing and the clubs to fit it for all parts of your bag.

I am EXTREMELY upset with the last "club fitter" granted I didn't do a full fitting, just what was needed for the driver (supposedly) and left the store thinking I had a really good deal on a club. come to find out the shaft was faulty. just all around bad shaft. the fitter I talked to today asked me before going out the door how my driver worked for me, and I told him I was thinking about cutting it down slightly cause of the inconsistency, so he asked if he could take a look at it. he messed with the flex a bit and walked towards his show put it in a vice with the little weighted laser on it.pulled it back in line with direction of what a shot would be. it didn't stay online for more then a fraction of a second before oscillating around in huge circles. he turned it and did it again. same result. 8 directions and same results, no "flow" found. he showed me a couple of other shafts some reasonable some just to much lol. but the ammount of how bad my shaft was was upsetting.

my price range through that fitter would leave me with Acer brand. but was wondering if anyone else out there knows the new line of Acer, all I know is they are an "open design". he seemed like he was trying to push one of the options a bit but wasn't sure if it was really what would work for me or if he was trying to dwindle his excess stock. he did say any heads/sets I pick up he would get adjusted and fitted for me so kind of on the fence for what heads to get. I'm not particularly attracted to the heads he had available in the Acer brand. but if they are a much better option compared to the DTG clone models then maybe.

only thing that worries me is he didn't do the lie board test, but with my clubs being so "whippy" even for stiff flex, might be part of the reason for a 2* flat adjustment on the current set? I was hitting the "standard" lie rather well but then again that's a couple feet into a target net. (altho being told they had a trackman on the phone I saw no evidence of one at their shop, not even a table/desk where one would sit)

but I did get to swing the Ben Hogans, if I had the money I woulda been walking out with those lol. sooo smooth and rarely had a bad hit, they almost swung themselves.

actually... sitting here thinking about what we went over.. still lots of gaps... shaft weight etc was never discussed. he told me "we use this brand in that one you swung with that wilson head" but never dialed in a swing weight or shaft weight. just the effects of them. tried looking up that brand/model but it varies in weights... so I have no clue what weight of shafts or over all swing weight was actually used on any of it.  only info on shaft I have is +1/4 inch, firm (R/S) flex or stiff soft stepped, steel "LITE" Low kick point. but the mid/low of one I used I was hitting the target repeatedly.

did I actually get shafted on the fitting? there are no others in this area I could think of that I would be able to go.