Oversized Persimmon Drivers?

Does anyone own an over-sized persimmon driver (250cc or so.) I was thinking about getting one from Louisville golf, but wanted some feedback first. Any thoughts? Anybody have one they want to get rid of?

I used to have a woods brother persimmon driver years ago which at the time seemed oversize but it could compete with the big berthas at the time so I traded it.

never knew louisville had an oversized driver till went to their site and looked

i recently came into a louisville persimmon driver and niblick which i plan on introducing to my bag come spring for the fun of hitting persimmon

to clear up some confusion on my part as i have been graciously informed that a niblick is a nine iron

niblick, name for louisville fairway wood series, i have the five wood

tiger btw, likes to thwack his persimmon driver on his practice range

would be fun to see him enter a tournament with hickory sticks and still win

I think Tiger's persimmon is the Classic 50's model made by Louisville golf. Neat.

Bob Estes Turns to Persimmon - Louisville Golf featured in Sports Illustrated PRESS RELEASE From the Historic Louisville Golf Club LOUISVILLE - PGA Tour player Bob Estes has recently been experimenting with a persimmon driver. First placing an older model MacGregor 945TW Tourney in his bag for the 2000 PGA Championship held in Louisville, KY, Estes has since stayed with the persimmon club. The Texas native paid $700 for the driver, when he could have easily been paid many times that for playing a metal driver. "Because of the Gear Effect, (persimmon is) much friendlier than titanium or steel," said Estes. He goes on, in a recent mention in the November 2000 issue of Golf Magazine, explaining the Gear Effect of wood, "With the wood head, when the ball is hit off the toe it takes off to the right and draws back in the fairway. When the ball is hit more toward the heel, it starts left and fades back to the fairway." Estes is the 1994 winner of the Texas Open and has two top ten finishes in 2000. He is 69th on the PGA Tour in Driving Accuracy and 63rd in Scoring Average as of October 25, 2000. In an independent test commissioned by Louisville Golf Club Company to GOLF LABS, a persimmon driver outhit Callaway Golf's Great Big Bertha in total distance by a yard using the same launch angle, persimmon getting a lot of its distance due to roll. Estes explains this in Golf Magazine. "Titanium drivers are designed to get the ball into the air with a lot of spin. Most pros can drive it high enough," said Estes. "What we're looking for is a high launch angle with low spin to maximize distance and roll. "With this club I'm going to be at a slight disadvantage when the fairways are soft, but I'll be able to maximize my roll and distance when they're firm." Estes went on to talk about persimmon in a recent PGA Tour notebook printed in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "I've never seen so many guys all over the map," Estes said about oversized-head, titanium drivers that almost all PGA Tour players are using. "Most of them have a big hook face on them. They make us hit those drivers because they want amateurs to play them." In an article written by Michael Bamberger in the August 28, 2000 issue of Sports Illustrated on Louisville Golf, its founder Elmore Just and persimmon woods, Estes was again sited. "I've tried about every steel and titanium driver there is," said Estes, who at the time of the article had just put the persimmon driver in his bag. "I feel like I'm going to hit more fairways with (persimmon), that's the main thing." Louisville Golf has been manufacturing persimmon woods since 1974. They are the last company still promoting and producing persimmon woods. For the past five years the company has seen a consistent increase in sales and media exposure. "We've been getting noticed because we are unique and still making the persimmon club," said Elmore Just, the company's president and spokesman. "Test results still indicate that persimmon performs as well as anything they are making out of metal. But like Estes said, persimmon has Gear Effect and this gives our clubs an asset that you can't build out of metal." Just founded Louisville Golf and the Professional Clubmakers Society along with Persimmon Ridge Golf Course, the number two rated course in Kentucky behind Valhalla. He lives on Persimmon Ridge Drive and has even penned a book called The Persimmon Story on the lost artform. "We stuck with persimmon long enough that it appears to be coming back in style," said Just. "It still should be a choice for golfers who want accuracy and superior feel. You don't lose distance contrary to popular belief. Persimmon has received a bad rap and it is undeserved." Just sites most companies looking for more inexpensive ways to make clubs, yet charging a higher retail which in turn allows a greater profit margin. "We are losing the craftmanship the game has inspired since the days of Old Tom Morris," said Just. "Now all the golf companies are spending a mountain on advertising and marketing and promising a miracle drug, but drugs have side effects." When persimmon ruled the golf kingdom Louisville Golf manufactured woods for the most prestigious names in golf - MacGregor, Hogan, Wilson, Spalding and Tommy Armour. Now they stand alone in the industry as a David vs. a metal Goliath. "We just want persimmon to be a choice again for golfers," said Just. "We all love the game here at Louisville Golf and we feel if hand-crafted, persimmon woods dies out in the industry then a huge part of the game dies as well. We'd like to prevent that from happening." POSTSCRIPT: In the December 2000 issue of Golf Digest, a small mention of Bob Estes' switch to persimmon was included on page 74. A piece titled Knock on wood in the Inside the Ropes section of the magazine echoed the Texas golfer's recent comments on persimmon. More importantly the blurb had some interesting statistics attached to it. Estes has averaged 278.3, 286.5 and 272.8 yards per drive at his first three tournaments with persimmon. These numbers were considerably longer than the 263.8 he'd been averaging prior to the switch.

I grew up playing the Power Bilt Citation persimmons. With shaft technology the way it is now I am guessing the article is right about one thing. Distance is still there. I remember in 1982 finishing 7th in a District Long Driving Contest with a drive of 279 yards. Not bad especially with the ball technology back then as well. It was with a 43 inch Citation persimmon driver. I was 29 at the time. Though I am older now, my distance has not increased over the years by much, maybe 5 yards. What I can say though is the sweetspot on those babies were about the size of a quarter. Nice post. Interesting read about Bob Estes. A lower compression ball like the NXT Tour or the 90 compression Pro V1 would make a good ball to hit with an old persimmon.
I think from Louisville Golf you can still have some hickory shafted clubs made as well.

I think I may give one a try once we break 30 degrees in Syracuse, NY!!

If you ever played with a persimmon you would remember someone complimenting a nice drive by saying something like "you got that one on the screws".

I started with persimmon driver and when I was young could hit it 250+ yards , but not with much accuracy. That's when a lot of people would hit a 3 wood or a long iron off the tee and sacrifice 20 or 30 yards to put th eball in the center of the fairway.

Now I hit my driver in the fairway on 90% of the par 4s and 5s and almost as far as I did 40 years ago. I get about the same air distance, but rarely get much roll anymore; today's balls fly differently.

After a long winter, I am really just chomping at the bit for some new (or in this case old) clubs!

I own a Woods Brother.It is a work of art, sweet sounding, great feeling, but i play FT5 tour. bottom line i does everythng better

Are there any companies other than Louisville Golf still manufacturing persimmon clubs?

Thanks for the post GangaGolfer that was a very interesting read. I think I have an old persimmon 4 wood laying around that I will give a thwack this spring!

joe powell golf in florida manufactures persimmon woods

http://www.joepowellgolf.com/

a company in the uk (not sure what uk stands for? ugly kissers???) manufactures persimmon woods

http://www.persimmongolf.co.uk/index.htm

and then there are some folks making tradional hickory shafted clubs with persimmon

jesse ortiz of the bobby jones golf company manufactures a set of bobby jones reproductions ($4.850) with persimmon heads and hickory shafts, also sell gutta perchas and featherie balls

http://www.golfspast.com/clubs.htm?q...ry+stick+clubs

another set called "george nicholl clubs" ($2,250) are manufactured at st. andrews

http://www.golfspast.com/page/E/PROD/RGNB

At an Australian tournament a few years ago Geoff Ogilvy and Mike Clayton hit Pro V's with persimmon drivers and old Balata balls with new drivers. The persimmon driver and new ball combo wasn't much different from their current set up.

The old ball with there current driver was much, much short and very wayward.

I'd love to find an old persimmon driver - the feel of my old mcgregor driver (long time sold) was amazing

I have six 240cc real wood, deep face drivers. These are the largest common size that are not modern. Average wood drivers are 200cc. The M09T Jumbo MacGregor is larger than mine and still old, but rare and expensive. The Ping Zing is a commonly found, huge, laminated sugar (rock) maple driver from recent years. Four of my drivers have distinct model numbers: Spalding 2250, Spalding 2369 (two), and Hagan 19MO.

One 240cc is persimmon (2250), the others are laminated sugar (rock) maple. All of them have inserts, two have screws in the inserts. One has a square screw pattern and the other a diamond screw pattern (19MO). All of them but one have fancy faces. None of them have the nice, thick brass sole plates. They all have alluminum soles. None of them have backweights or sideweights. None of them have scooped crowns. None of them have powder weight ports. One has a whipped cord neck, the others a plastic "turtleneck" sheath. One has an alluminum shaft, the others steel. One has an original, non-slip-on, wound leather wrap grip (2250). All of their faces are 1 7/8'' (48mm) tall.

Persimmon feels like hitting a golf ball with a solid chunk of granite and makes a craking sound on good hits. Laminated maple feels like hitting a golf ball with a thick hardback book and makes a soft thud on all hits. Fancy faces is a term for decorative face color combinations.

Brass sole plates put more weight below the ball. Backweights make the center of gravity very deep. Wood clubs have deeper COGs for their size. Heel weights give a draw bias, toe weights a fade. The Hogan Speedslot in Hogan drivers is a gimmick. Corked drivers do not have the rumored effect of corked bats (not springy). Wood drivers require less effort to keep the clubface square during a swing.

Scooped crowns lower the COG. The Louiseville Thumper is a club with a scooped crown. Cleveland HiBORE series woods have the same shape crown. Powder weight ports hold fine swingweighting powder inside a clubhead. Some Taylormade Pittsburg Persimmon (not wood, 431 stainless steel) woods have powder weight ports. Daiwa and Rainbow real wood heads have ports. Whipping can come lose, but looks better than a "turtleneck."

Alluminum shafts are supposed to be lighter weight and softer flex than steel. An actually wound leather wrap grip is very hard to get to the correct taper and grip size. Modern drivers have faces in the 50mm to 60mm tall range. The face height is more important than the width or depth of real wood clubheads, in my experience. Louisville heads have more average height faces, but modern shaft options and amazing face inserts. The MacGregor M09T Jumbo is supposed to have a face taller than 48mm.

Old real wood drivers have very low lofts in relation to the shaft (not in relation to sole). That is designed for the old balls. They also can exagerate slices and hooks, but reward a square angle face contact with amazing accuracy. A real wood driver can be modified to work almost exactly as well as modern drivers with new balls on good hits. On contact with the ball to the heel or toe, distance is 75%-25%, though. In bounds is better than extra yards of distance that are put out of bounds. Heel and toe hits with real woods stay in most fairways when the face is square, in my experience.

I finish my woods with two floodings of teak oil, two applications of colored finish, and three floodings of polyurethane with fine sanding between the three outer poly layers. A club with this finish usually has the same cometic scuffing of the face after a great deal of hits as stainless steel (particularly 15-5).

I hit real wood better than anything else when it is made for modern balls. Louisville Golf (Persimmon Golf in the United Kingdom) makes clubs for modern balls.

By the way, I am not selling my clubs.

Wow, amazing post. Thanks. I think I am leaning toward a Louisville Smart series driver. The are pricey, but the shaft and length options upon purchase are a nice feature.