@JonMA1 I would never ever ever.... ever say that it's it's easy.  All I am saying is that it is possible for anyone to have a functional swing. It might take several instructors to find a good one, but it is possible. 

Personally, I become worse for a few weeks following a lesson, until I finally I have the "aha" moment.. I never figure it out in front of the instructor. My biggest issue w/ instructors is they rely too much on cliches and drills. A lot of people can't learn this way. I would prefer everything as direct and simple as possible. 

Last year I met a guy on the driving range who was associated with a former PGA Tour player, and who helped the former PGA tour player put on clinics and the like.   So I signed up for six lessons from him, and I got nowhere.   His problem was, he overcoached.   Every swing he told me a different thing that I needed to correct.   He never gave me a starting point.   Change your posture, change your grip, change your stance, you're too weak, you need to work out and gain some muscle, etc etc etc.   That was a waste of time and money on my part. 

I went to my local driving range a few days ago, and the highly respected local teaching pro was giving a lesson about 20 feet away, and what got me was, the guy never stopped talking.  I don't want that.  Just watch me swing and tell me one thing at a time and give me one drill to help me.  I don't need to work on 50 things at once. 

Yesterday I went to my local Golftec, and met a guy whose business card says, "Certified Personal Coach."   I have no idea what that even means.  But, he hooked me up to all these harnesses and did the videotaping, and drew the lines on the video tape, and it all made sense.  He told me I had a few things I needed to correct, but all he was going to give me now was one thing that he thought was my worst flaw, and that was, shoulder tilt.  He showed me video of Dustin Johnson, which he called an extreme example, and put it side by side with my video, and showed me what he meant by proper shoulder tilt.   So I signed up for 10 rather expensive half hour lessons.  But I think this is going to be good, because, regardless of whether this guy is a PGA professional or not, this guy knows how to teach. 

I think that's the key.  Regardless of credentials, does the guy know how to teach.  Does what he says make sense to you. 

One thing I will add, looking at my swing on video makes me wonder how I ever managed to break 90 with that golf swing.   What a piece of crap swing I have.  I get the club way out in front on the downswing, and come over the top like it's going out of style.   Wow.   What a dose of much-needed humility.  

1 minute ago, iacas said:

GolfTec is, generally speaking, "paint by numbers." They hook you to the device(s) and then say "well, PGA Tour average for this number is this, so you should try to get the same number." For you that number was obviously the shoulder tilt bit (at setup? I don't know… that would be pretty darn easy though if it was just at setup).

I completely agree with one thing at a time. @mvmac and I have said on here thousands of times to find your priority piece and just work on that. Priority piece, priority, priority. Be a Stupid Monkey after that.

Now I'm not saying that all GolfTec employees are this paint-by-numbers sort of thing, but they do tend to rely on that setup fairly often. It's a fine way for an instructor who is newer to golf instruction to work, but the trick is still going to be in doing a few things…

• Finding the proper priority. Is your shoulder tilt the biggest flaw in your swing or is it simply the number they think is off the most from their PGA Tour averages?
• Even if that is the biggest flaw, is it the root cause, or is it a result?*
• Can he communicate properly the feels and drills that help you fix the result? Does he understand what else is likely to change as a result of what he's asking you to do?

 

 

Those are great points.   He did tell me that as soon as I fix my shoulder tilt problem we will have to work on flattening my swing, because of course if I get better shoulder tilt with the same backswing, the club will go way up in the air too steeply.  

He didn't say the shoulder tilt problem was in my setup, he said it was in my swing itself.  He said I lose my shoulder tilt in my backswing, and that causes all sorts of compensating flaws.   And the important thing is, I can see quite clearly that he is right. 

I really did like the video-ing and the drawing lines and so forth.   For me, it's really helpful.   Probably because it shows me that my problems are really surprisingly basic and fundamental.   I had no idea. 

And I don't mind that they compare my swing to PGA Tour averages.   I'm like, show me my swing, and then show me a good swing, and show me the difference. 

We'll see if it works out.  It's probably way overpriced, but I already got one cheap set of lessons that were totally worthless. 

On 10/6/2016 at 0:04 PM, mvmac said:

Yep exactly. For my own game this took me some time to really grasp. I was under the false assumption that if you can copy a tour player's swing that your ball striking would improve, not necessarily the case. Learning/observing what tour players do is certainly helpful because it gives us an idea of what the best players are doing but there are variations within that "acceptable zone".

Quick example, I know a low handicap golfer that had been working with an instructor that tends to take a "paint by numbers" approach. His game had been getting worse and worse because each lesson was about modeling a "swing" and it was a real struggle for him to get into positions the instructor wanted him in. The low handicap golfer is a former baseball player with a burly build. The instructor also compared his swing against players like Adam Scott, guys with completely different body proportions. I introduced the golfer to an instructor I thought would be a better fit and he's playing the best golf of his life because they are working on movements that he can actually achieve and addressing priorities specific to the player. 

@Marty2019, glad to here you're are working on some more appropriate pieces, best of luck with your golf. Just don't get too tied up in the numbers, use them as a general reference, not an exact number to hit. 

Thanks.   I'm not really tied up in the numbers.  It's not really that important to me that my shoulder tilt is less than tour averages.  What is important is that my lack of shoulder tilt at the top of the back swing causes me to move the club outward on my down swing and that causes me to come over the top. 

Maybe this is a paint by numbers approach, and that may or may not be the very best way to teach, but at least it is some kind of process, unlike my previous instructor who really seemed to be flummoxed about where to start, so he started everywhere at once.