Is a detailed overhead image of course allowed?

[jfrain2004]

Is such a thing allowed? My playing partner produced an overhead image of our course last week out of his bag and I was telling him that that would not be allowed under golfing rules. He argued it was no different to the shot saver course outline on the back of the course card. But this one he had distances marked in spaces of 10 mtrs and it was very easy to pick your current ball location from the map and be accurete to +/- 5 yrds to the green.

[tm22721]

What a pain I hate maps this will only slow down play.

Using sprinkler heads or other markings I can always get within five yards.

If you are lazy get a Skycaddie. Natalie Gulbis is pimping them every five minutes on TV so they can't be a scam.

If your course is not in their permanent database, the next time you play you can record the tees, greens and bunkers into the unit's memory with the push of a button. Many golf bags now have a Skycaddie pocket so you don't have to fumble around in your own pockets.

[TourSpoon]

Is such a thing allowed? My playing partner produced an overhead image of our course last week out of his bag and I was telling him that that would not be allowed under golfing rules. He argued it was no different to the shot saver course outline on the back of the course card. But this one he had distances marked in spaces of 10 mtrs and it was very easy to pick your current ball location from the map and be accurete to +/- 5 yrds to the green.

How is this any different from a yardage book (I am not sure what they are called in Europe) that you see the pros consult during a tournament? I have several books of local courses that were made when certain events were played (mini tours, LPGA, PGA) and they give very detailed information including distances to carry bunkers, distance to water, dimensions of greens, slope, etc. I don't see how your friend violated any rule by having a detailed course outline. If anything I would borrow it and make some notes of the holes that give you trouble. I just hope your friend didn't unduly hold up play studying his guide.

[mikelz]

How is this any different from a yardage book (I am not sure what they are called in Europe) that you see the pros consult during a tournament? I have several books of local courses that were made when certain events were played (mini tours, LPGA, PGA) and they give very detailed information including distances to carry bunkers, distance to water, dimensions of greens, slope, etc. I don't see how your friend violated any rule by having a detailed course outline. If anything I would borrow it and make some notes of the holes that give you trouble. I just hope your friend didn't unduly hold up play studying his guide.

I am pretty sure you can carry a GPS device with you. I think it was made legal because they are on carts all over the place. I'm not going to look it up since I didn't ask the original question.

I am also pretty sure that "prior" course knowledge does not include pictures even if they were made by a surveyor. I am writing this sentence for one purpose: I am going to make the font green for whichever of you gave me negative rep points for that.

[hawkeye]

what course was this at out of interest?

Not every course has yardage on the sprinklerheads and not every course has a stroke saver. A lot of courses i play in Ireland don't have either.

I don't think that you can use GPS in competition in Ireland at the moment.

[p_funk]

I do not know the rule on this, but as someone already has said. I do not see how it would be any different than a yardage book with the same information in it. You just would not have the pretty pictures of each hole.

[TourSpoon]

I am not sure how this is related to using a GPS on a course because the question asks about an image. These are really two seperate issues even if GPS technology was used to mark the yardages and create the image. IMO, This falls into the yardage book category.

[mikelz]

I am not sure how this is related to using a GPS on a course because the question asks about an image. These are really two seperate issues even if GPS technology was used to mark the yardages and create the image. IMO, This falls into the yardage book category.

Spoon, I only mentioned GPS because it's an example of how relaxed these rules are.

[JonnyGolf]

Is such a thing allowed? My playing partner produced an overhead image of our course last week out of his bag and I was telling him that that would not be allowed under golfing rules. He argued it was no different to the shot saver course outline on the back of the course card. But this one he had distances marked in spaces of 10 mtrs and it was very easy to pick your current ball location from the map and be accurete to +/- 5 yrds to the green.

It is legal. It isn't any different than what a pro caddie uses other than it is a picture, rather than a drawn image. I've used them in tournaments for courses I hadn't played previously. Google Earth works great.

[mikelz]

what course was this at out of interest?

I did look up the rule. You can use GPS (R&A-USGA;) by local rule approved by the "Committee" (i.e., the dudes running the competition or your club).

Here's the verbiage: " A noteworthy change is the governing bodies' sanction of the use of distance measuring devices, including GPS-based systems and laser rangefinders. New Decision 14-3/0.5 allows a Committee to permit the use of distance-measuring devices by Local Rule. This applies to devices that measure distance only, not any other conditions that might affect a player's play (e.g., wind or gradient). In the absence of such a Local Rule, the use of a distance-measuring device remains contrary to the Rules ." Maybe that aerial photo was illegal. If you know the scale, it sure sounds like a distance measuring device. http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/changes_rules.html

[JonnyGolf]

I did look up the rule. You can use GPS (R&A-USGA;) by local rule approved by the "Committee" (i.e., the dudes running the competition or your club).

A "distance-measuring device" does not include aerial photos. A photo doesn't measure distance. Every printed course guide would be illegal if that were the case.

[Q.Q.Quillume]

what course was this at out of interest?

And

some courses have incorrect yardages on some sprinkler heads!!!!

[hawkeye]

I did look up the rule. You can use GPS (R&A-USGA;) by local rule approved by the "Committee" (i.e., the dudes running the competition or your club).

yep i've read the rule but in competitions in Ireland no Committee allows them. GPS's aren't popular here at all.

Anyway - say you go to a course that has a detailed stroke saver. And you bring an ariel photograph too. In general it won't give you any extra edge. I believe that a stroke saver does help you out a lot - so playing courses without a strokesaver puts you at a disadvantage. There's no problem with walking a course and made up a strokesaver or just noted distances/carrys/hazards etc - so why shouldn't you be allowed to download an ariel photograph to help you?

[mikelz]

A "distance-measuring device" does not include aerial photos. A photo doesn't measure distance. Every printed course guide would be illegal if that were the case.

I said "might". I'm careful about that. I think this is what surveyors do for a living: measure distances from point to point. Having said that, an aerial photograph taken by a surveyor generally has its scale right on the print. Combine that with a ruler and you have a distance measuring device (IMHO). A friend of mine owns a company called "Geo Graphics". We did it. It works. Nobody ever called us on it because we never took the photos on the course. We just made exhaustive notes. Course markings are almost always off. If an opponent did take it on the course, I would have a problem with that (right or wrong). Printed course guides are artwork (IMHO) that may or may not correctly reflect the results of a distance measuring device. They definitely do not allow you to measure from where you are standing to any place else.

[iacas]

We just made exhaustive notes. Course markings are almost always off.

You'd be wrong to have a problem with it. Aerial photos are perfectly legal. Any notes you want to write on them are legal, including predominant wind direction if you want to put that down or soil measurements you took during a practice round.

[mikelz]

You'd be wrong to have a problem with it. Aerial photos are perfectly legal. Any notes you want to write on them are legal, including predominant wind direction if you want to put that down or soil measurements you took during a practice round.

Maybe Bob wants to fire up the plane.

[TourSpoon]

Maybe Bob wants to fire up the plane.

If he fires it up on a treadmill will it be able to take off? Just kidding.

Many of the tour quality books show green elevations, general slope, etc. They usually have some sort of scale to them although I would say they take some liberties to fit it all on a page of a palm sized notebook.

[JonnyGolf]

If he fires it up on a treadmill will it be able to take off? Just kidding.

that is one of the funniest Internet arguments evah!

and, yeah, photo maps are legal. they're not devices and they don't measure distance.